Aspies In The Church

[Gabriela]

Hi everyone,

I am in the diagnostic process for Asperger's Syndrome, and I am wondering about other people's experiences of being aspies in the Church. I know most aspies aren't religious, so I'm presuming we're a rare breed. (Obviously I'm also presuming I have it. Tony Attwood's books read like my autobiography.)

There's a book called "Introverts in the Church" and a website/blog by the author ([url="http://www.introvertedchurch.com/"]http://www.introvertedchurch.com/[/url]) that I've found really interesting and highly applicable to aspies. The basic idea of both is that churches define themselves so much by their social events these days that introverts are often perceived as unfriendly and, hence, unchristian. That author is Protestant, however, and I'm new to the Catholic Church, and have access only to a very small parish.

The reason I think Asperger's/introversion might create "unwelcoming" problems also in the Catholic Church is because, the first time I met the youth minister of my parish, he insisted that our faith is not lived alone. But I've always felt alone in everything I do (as most aspies do). And my father is a (non-canonical, but very faithful) hermit (who probably also has Asperger's). So, feeling I must defend my father, I asked the youth minister, "If faith must always be lived in community, then why does the Church canonize hermits?" To which he had no reply. To me, community and social life just seem like presumptions modern Christians make without recognizing that, without individuals who nurture their private faith, there can be no communities of faith. Thus, individual faith would seem to take priority over collective faith. (We are, after all, saved as individuals, not as parishes.)

Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying community isn't important. I think it's very important. But I don't think it's for everyone. Most people, probably, but not all.

So: What is the rest of the Catholic world like for aspies/introverts? Cuz I'll likely be leaving podunk soon...

curiousing

Edited June 27, 2012 by curiousing

[Gabriela]

Ok, after writing that post, I realized there is something very weird going on in PM. Every time I type the letter sequence "a-s-s-", as part of a word like "a-s-s-ume" or "a-s-s-ert", the sequence gets changed to "arse", e.g., "arseume" and "arsert".

Someone has got to be messing with PM...

[CatherineM]

My husband has schizophrenia as do many of his friends including two that were in seminary when they became ill. He finds smaller churches to be easier on him. Ours has several members with mental illnesses, and PDD.

[Laudate_Dominum]

I'm friends in RL with a guy who has Asperger's. He's in CL.

[cmotherofpirl]

The Church is universal, so introverts and extroverts are both welcome You don't have to be a social butterfly to be a good catholic or attend every activity at your parish. Christ meets us where we are not where the youth minister thinks you should be.

[arfink]

I'm somewhat introverted. I know I don't have asperger's, but I generally don't enjoy the "hustle and bustle" and being around tons of unfamiliar people. I have met people who insist that I must be crazy for not liking being around so many new people, since they seem to get a real charge out of it.

If you don't want to be deeply involved in youth group stuff, just tell the youth minister you don't want to and that the pressure makes you uncomfortable. That's usually more than enough "justification" even for a flaming extrovert.

Edited June 27, 2012 by arfink

[Lil Red]

[quote name='arfink' timestamp='1340812945' post='2449441']If you don't want to be deeply involved in youth group stuff, just tell the youth minister you don't want to and that the pressure makes you uncomfortable. That's usually more than enough "justification" even for a flaming extrovert.[/quote]

on the other hand, it's part of a youth minister's job to include everyone, to get youth involved in the life of the Church (local and universal). and to push youth outside their comfort zones to do things that they wouldn't normally do (like service projects, group prayer, etc)

i don't think it's necessarily that faith is "always" lived in community, but rather that it is much easier to live the Faith in community with others. and living in community is the norm in the life of the Church - and I'm thinking of the Sacraments when I speak of all this, btw. living apart like a hermit is a higher calling, much like priesthood/religious life is the higher calling from the norm of marriage.

and yes, we always have the community of heaven united in our prayer with us, but we are corporeal and spiritual creatures. not just body, not just soul. we are both for a reason, and most of us do need that connection.

i hope i'm making sense.

[arfink]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1340814225' post='2449446']
on the other hand, it's part of a youth minister's job to include everyone, to get youth involved in the life of the Church (local and universal). and to push youth outside their comfort zones to do things that they wouldn't normally do (like service projects, group prayer, etc)

i don't think it's necessarily that faith is "always" lived in community, but rather that it is much easier to live the Faith in community with others. and living in community is the norm in the life of the Church - and I'm thinking of the Sacraments when I speak of all this, btw. living apart like a hermit is a higher calling, much like priesthood/religious life is the higher calling from the norm of marriage.

and yes, we always have the community of heaven united in our prayer with us, but we are corporeal and spiritual creatures. not just body, not just soul. we are both for a reason, and most of us do need that connection.

i hope i'm making sense.
[/quote]

I think you are making sense, but do tread carefully. Asperger's is a step beyond even the usual introverted personality type, and arseerting that the youth minister *should* be pushing introverts harder is not a good idea. Comfort zones are one thing, but treading on someone's personality is another entirely.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='arfink' timestamp='1340814487' post='2449448']I think you are making sense, but do tread carefully. Asperger's is a step beyond even the usual introverted personality type, and arseerting that the youth minister *should* be pushing introverts harder is not a good idea. Comfort zones are one thing, but treading on someone's personality is another entirely.[/quote]

where did i say anything of the sort that a youth minister should tread on someone's personality? or say that it was okay?

and an addendum: youth ministers have a very difficult job, and when you have 50+ kids in a youth group, it's simply not probable to tailor your program to fit each kid (you can tailor how you approach each kid). which means some kids will feel "pushed".

(sorry if i just don't believe the hype of every self-diagnosed kid out there (whether by parent or by self) having some kind of "disorder".)

[arfink]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1340814760' post='2449452']
(sorry if i just don't believe the hype of every self-diagnosed kid out there (whether by parent or by self) having some kind of "disorder".)
[/quote]

Sorry if I interpreted you as treading, but it's bits and pieces like this that make me read it between the lines.

Oh well. Ultimately the youth minister's gonna' just do whatever he does. If you think it makes you uncomfortable you have two choices: take it as part of the package, or do your own thing. Nobody's preventing you.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='arfink' timestamp='1340815246' post='2449454']
Sorry if I interpreted you as treading, but it's bits and pieces like this that make me read it between the lines.

Oh well. Ultimately the youth minister's gonna' just do whatever he does. If you think it makes you uncomfortable you have two choices: take it as part of the package, or do your own thing. Nobody's preventing you.
[/quote]

introverts are one thing. i am one. i could handle introverts and respect their space when i was a y.m. (respect their space as much as i could. it's not like when you're doing a group activity that you can just let kids just because they are introverts, do their "own thing".)

but give youth ministers a break. unless they have something from a parent or doctor that says, "Hey, this kid has this disorder", they shouldn't just trust a kid who says "hey, i have aspberger's (or whatever disorder)". otherwise (and I've seen it), kids will try to pull anything to get out of doing something they don't want to, because they can blame it on such-and-such disorder.

[arfink]

[quote name='curiousing' timestamp='1340767431' post='2449327']

So: What is the rest of the Catholic world like for aspies/introverts? Cuz I'll likely be leaving podunk soon...

curiousing
[/quote]

Back on topic then: There will always be people with attitudes like Lil Red's. They mean well and just need to get their jobs done, but they don't trust you.

This is remarkably common, and while I'd like to say there's an easy way to deal with this, there isn't. You sometimes just have to suffer with the fact that people will not accept you easily.

[Lil Red]

LOL

wow.

[arfink]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1340817782' post='2449467']
LOL

wow.
[/quote]

It's all good, thanks for playing the game with me.

[Lil Red]

honestly, i'm really offended by your post, arfink. you have no idea what i was like as a youth minister. it wasn't just "a job" to me. i loved my kids. (i still love them!) but there will always be kids who try to pull stunt after stunt. and a youth minister will know when a kid is bs'ing them. that's what i was trying to say when i don't "trust a kid" like that. you have no idea the heart & soul & blood I put into youth ministry. and you have no idea what it's like to be a youth minister until you're in the trenches. it's easy to sit up on a pedestal and judge from up there, but youth ministers get crap from all sides.

Edited June 27, 2012 by Lil Red