Non-catholics Have Feelings Too

[IcePrincessKRS]

Amen to that Azaelia. Thats pretty much what I was getting at. Plenty of people have attended Catholic schools who aren't Catholic, and going to those schools doesn't mean you know much about Catholicism at all! I recently had a conversation with a girl who'd gone to Catholic school all through grade school and jr. high, but was raised Methodist, and when the subject of certain Catholic teachings came up and I explained them to her she was floored, she said "No one EVER told me that!" Its just like the Apostles Creed not being the whole Rosary, yes its a part of the Rosary, and it is a statement of our beliefs, but quoting it hardly qualifies as "praying the Rosary."

[littleflower+JMJ]

we are not saved until we walk through those pearly white gates, and not a minute before.

Jesus saved us ALL on Good Friday.

it is now our turn to show our faith and works to Him each and every day till we die, with hope that we too can be with Him one day.

Pax.

+JMJ+

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Archangel Raphael' date='May 26 2004, 02:13 PM']

Catholics:  I do believe Catholics have more historical knowledge of the early Church and some mysteries known that other denominations don't.  But also, just like with everyone since we're all human, some Catholics can be biggots and think they're on the ultimate path to God's Will.  Any church, even the Catholic church, have problems, cause we're human no matter how much you wanna explain it away.  But what upsets me the most is hearing people speak more on trying to convert their friends and family to Catholicsizm (sorry for bad spelling) than trying to help eachother grow in the Lord despite what 'rule' system they choose to use to worship God.  There are MANY people who are Catholic, yet aren't Saved.  Infact I've seen more people Unsaved in the Catholic church than those in other denominations.  Now of course, the unsaved Catholics aren't really true Catholics, but what are the Catholics doing to change that?  I'm sure there are some who are ministering the Word to the unsaved, but from what I experianced, and in majority, they just go through the ritual and never have a true relationship with Christ.  And more food for thought: Jesus was a Jew, and if you wanna be very technical about it, we should all be Jews.  The Jewish religion came before the Catholic.  Jesus himself even followed Jewish law, and fullfilled it!  Therefore now you got the Messianic Jews, who of course believe in Christ like we do yet also still follow the Jewish holidays in addition to the Christian ones.  In all due respect, I think the Jews have more room to talk about conversion that the Catholics.  And also, didn't Paul say that our Salvation is by Faith, not law and works?  Before Christ it was by the Law, now it's by Faith.  Did you see him trying to convert the Gentiles into Jews?  Nope, he simply preached about Jesus and the way to Him.

Ok I know that was a long post, but there, I said it.  That's my view on things between Catholics and Protestants, so where do I stand?  Well in religion, I enjoy taking part in the ways of the Catholic church.  But if someone were to ask me what denomination I am, I just tell them I'm a Child of God.  And besides, Catholic means universal, so in a sense maybe I am Catholic?  Either way that's fine with me. [/quote]


Several points:

Benny Hinn is not Catholic in any way. No one said non-CAtholics could not receive grace from God. They just can't recieve the fullness outside the Church.

The Catholic Church is the Church founded by Jesus Christ. The history of Christianity is the history of the Catholic church. All Catholics are called to evangelize as Jesus commanded: "Go Ye therefore and preach to all nations and baptise them..."
Baptism justifies us before God, admits us to the Body of Christ, and gives us the possibility of salvation. Baptism gives you are relationship with Jesus Christ by virtue of the grace it pour into your soul. Free will means you have the choice to cooperate with that Grace or walk away.
We are saved by Grace. Read James who says Faith without works is dead.

Edited May 26, 2004 by cmotherofpirl

[Quietfire]

Justin,
One thing. Although you made some decent points here as far as Catholics and Protestants (and Im still more prot than cath right now)
Yeah, its real easy to make comments on how some Catholics arent Catholics in the sense that they dont 'practice' thier faith.
On the other hand though, it belittles us all (human) to continue with this 'this one doesnt and this one does' carp.
We are all connected, and thats the catch. Whether we like it or not. Some may not think so, but after doing some reading on F. Sheed, alot of things are falling into place for me.
You, brother...are my brother.

I'm not saying that your post is wrong...but it sounds more angry than it needs to be.

We are all so far from perfect that criticism only pushes up farther away from each other than need.
Read F. Sheed if ya get the chance.
I'm starting to understand why Jesus preferred sinners.

Way cool.


Peace.
Dutchess QF (just this week)

[Archangel Raphael]

Alright, in all honesty I'm wondering if some of us are getting confused on what they determine as 'works' here for God. In all respect, cmotherofpirl, or anyone else here, what do you interpret for 'works'? Just an honest question.

[Archangel Raphael]

[quote name='Quietfire' date='May 26 2004, 07:11 PM'] Justin,
One thing. Although you made some decent points here as far as Catholics and Protestants (and Im still more prot than cath right now)
Yeah, its real easy to make comments on how some Catholics arent Catholics in the sense that they dont 'practice' thier faith.
On the other hand though, it belittles us all (human) to continue with this 'this one doesnt and this one does' carp.
We are all connected, and thats the catch. Whether we like it or not. Some may not think so, but after doing some reading on F. Sheed, alot of things are falling into place for me.
You, brother...are my brother.

I'm not saying that your post is wrong...but it sounds more angry than it needs to be.

We are all so far from perfect that criticism only pushes up farther away from each other than need.
Read F. Sheed if ya get the chance.
I'm starting to understand why Jesus preferred sinners.

Way cool.


Peace.
Dutchess QF (just this week) [/quote]
I'm sorry it it seems a bit angry, but in respect too, don't expect me not to get emotional either about it. Its a matter that hurts me, but I did it in the most calm way I could. Even Jesus got angry, so angry that He turned over tables and made a huge mess at the temple. Of course there is a line between controlled and uncontrolled anger, I want to believe I'm operating under the controlled part, but no one's perfect I guess But thank you for your input

[Anna]

There are corporal works (works we do bodily) and spiritual works.

Some examples are the [u]Corporal Works of Mercy[/u]:
Clothe the naked
Feed the hungry
Give drink to the thirsty
Shelter the homeless
Care for the sick
Visit the imprisoned
Bury the dead

[u]Spiritual Works of Mercy[/u]:
Admonish the sinner
Instruct the ignorant
Counsel the doubtful
Comfort the sorrowful
Bear wrongs patiently
Forgive all injuries
Pray for the living and the dead

[Katholikos]

Raphael,

Please learn the basics of the Catholic religion before you try to explain it to others. I'll be glad to send you a book if you will accept it and read it. Let me know and send me your snail mail addy by private email. I'll send you an itty bitty book at first, just the bare basics, and a big book later if you're open to receiving it.

No one "gets saved." There is no such thing as "instant salvation" in true, original Christianity. "Instant salvation" is a 16th century heresy. We all must "work out our salvation in fear and trembling" over our entire lifetime, as St. Paul tell us (Philippians 2:12). And "whoever endures to the end will be saved" Mt 10:22. And again, from St. Mark, "But the one who perseveres to the end (of his lifetime) will be saved" (13:13).

I am critical of the false teachings of Protestantism but not of Protestants. I used to be one.

Peace be to you and to all,


JMJ Likos

[Katholikos]

[quote name='Quietfire' date='May 26 2004, 06:11 PM'] Justin,
One thing. Although you made some decent points here as far as Catholics and Protestants (and Im still more prot than cath right now)
Yeah, its real easy to make comments on how some Catholics arent Catholics in the sense that they dont 'practice' thier faith.
On the other hand though, it belittles us all (human) to continue with this 'this one doesnt and this one does' carp.
We are all connected, and thats the catch. Whether we like it or not. Some may not think so, but after doing some reading on F. Sheed, alot of things are falling into place for me.
You, brother...are my brother.

I'm not saying that your post is wrong...but it sounds more angry than it needs to be.

We are all so far from perfect that criticism only pushes up farther away from each other than need.
Read F. Sheed if ya get the chance.
I'm starting to understand why Jesus preferred sinners.

Way cool.


Peace.
Dutchess QF (just this week) [/quote]
Quietfire,

Which book of Sheed's are you reading? Theology for Beginners and Theology and Sanity are the ones I have. Scrumptious reading! This is a man who can think clearly and write clearly what he thinks. They're high on my list of favorite books.

JMJ Jay (Likos)

[Katholikos]

Quietfire wrote:

[i]You, brother...are my brother.[/i]

This is a scientifically true statement, as well as a religious truth. Genetic studies have proven that we are all children of a single man and woman. And that we are all out of Africa. We can talk about it on another thread if anyone is interested.

Ave Cor Mariae, Likos

[Quietfire]

Blessing Brother Likos.

Sheed is my new instant hero.
I got theology for beginners off of ebay, with no idea what I would discover, but figured if I ever wanted to be as good as YOU in debate, then I would need to start somewhere.

THIS MAN ROCKS. And I fell in love with this book after the first page. So now I am on a hunt for some of his other stuff. Theology and Sanity is next. But I know, I will read Theology for Beginners over and over again.

If you want to start another thread on our community to each other, fine. But I gotta warn you, I'm still learning. (the Africa thing is a new one on me)


Love and Peace all.

[Archangel Raphael]

[quote name='Katholikos' date='May 26 2004, 07:41 PM'] Raphael,

Please learn the basics of the Catholic religion before you try to explain it to others. I'll be glad to send you a book if you will accept it and read it. Let me know and send me your snail mail addy by private email. I'll send you an itty bitty book at first, just the bare basics, and a big book later if you're open to receiving it.

No one "gets saved." There is no such thing as "instant salvation" in true, original Christianity. "Instant salvation" is a 16th century heresy. We all must "work out our salvation in fear and trembling" over our entire lifetime, as St. Paul tell us (Philippians 2:12). And "whoever endures to the end will be saved" Mt 10:22. And again, from St. Mark, "But the one who perseveres to the end (of his lifetime) will be saved" (13:13).

I am critical of the false teachings of Protestantism but not of Protestants. I used to be one.

Peace be to you and to all,


JMJ Likos [/quote]
Sorry I haven't responded in a while, but about your quote there:

I take your definition as 'instant salvation' to be that no one is truly Saved until they get to heaven, cause during our time on earth we are all subject to falliblity, yes? If so, then I agree with that. It's just a different way of looking at the term 'Saved.'

I guess the proper term is being 'Born Again.' When you accept Jesus into your heart, you are a new creation, a new being, a baby in the Spirit. Therefore through learning the Word, prayer, and attending church, you grow more and more in the Ways of the Lord and begin to develope in the Spirit. Just as we grow physically and mature, it is the very same thing with the Spirit.

I guess when the protestants say that we have salvation, is cause when someone asks Christ to come into our hearts, it means that if someone were to die five minutes later, they would be with Jesus. Or if someone was on their death bed, and knew in their heart they screwed up in their life, and was repentant of it, then I believe too if that person accepted Christ that they would gain salvation.

So perhaps the proper term to use here, is being Born Again.

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote name='Archangel Raphael' date='May 27 2004, 01:20 PM'] Sorry I haven't responded in a while, but about your quote there:

I take your definition as 'instant salvation' to be that no one is truly Saved until they get to heaven, cause during our time on earth we are all subject to falliblity, yes? If so, then I agree with that. It's just a different way of looking at the term 'Saved.'

I guess the proper term is being 'Born Again.' When you accept Jesus into your heart, you are a new creation, a new being, a baby in the Spirit. Therefore through learning the Word, prayer, and attending church, you grow more and more in the Ways of the Lord and begin to develope in the Spirit. Just as we grow physically and mature, it is the very same thing with the Spirit.

I guess when the protestants say that we have salvation, is cause when someone asks Christ to come into our hearts, it means that if someone were to die five minutes later, they would be with Jesus. Or if someone was on their death bed, and knew in their heart they screwed up in their life, and was repentant of it, then I believe too if that person accepted Christ that they would gain salvation.

So perhaps the proper term to use here, is being Born Again. [/quote]
You are born anew in Baptism for Jesus said Unless you are born again of water and spirit, refering to Baptism. So this does not go with just accepting Jesus, we are born anew at Baptism we become sons in The Son.

St. Paul writes we must work out our salvation in fear and trembling. Faith without works is dead, and it is written in the end all will be judged according to their deeds.

It is alot more complicated than accepting Jesus, it is work, it is a cross, unless one take up his cross and follow me he cannot be my disciple.

I agree if one is on his death bed and didn't know better and repented with a sorrowful heart, anything with God is possible.

Pax
Jason

[Archangel Raphael]

[quote name='IcePrincessKRS' date='May 26 2004, 06:55 PM'] The Apostles Creed isnt' the Rosary. Apparently those years of Catholic school didn't teach you much.

Justin, may I stress that her name is ANNA, with an A not an E (sorry, proper names is a pet peeve of mine, no offense intended). [/quote]
Well like I said not all schools, Catholic or Protestant alike, are perfect. Again I don't attack the Church, I just point out that each individual has a choice to accept the Word or not. You gotta understand, it's not the Church teachings that doesn't work. It's usually the people who try to teach them sometimes. Most of the time, and with any denomination, they teach law yet not love with it. It all comes down to balance again, God is a God of balance. You can't preach about all love yet no law, or all law and no love. You gotta have both, and alot of people, even in the Catholic church (cause yes, we're not perfect, we're human) get so caught up in the law, and forget the love too.

So therefore, even if Brittaney's teachers taught on the Rosary, and with Brittaney at the time caring not a thing about it, how would she remember it anyway? lol I mean, my Mom used to go to Catholic school, and the nuns there were royal jerks. Used to send her off home making her miss the bus (cause usually if one person was bad in class, ALL children had to then stay and they missed the bus) so she had to walk through some of the most bad neighborhoods in Philly, her little 6 year old self, two miles home.

Does this mean the Church as evil or corrupt? Nooo, it just means some people are all law, and no love. That's only the point I'm making Which is why I guess if you really want your child in a Catholic school, also make sure the teachers really love the Lord and won't abuse your child in anyway. And that same word goes out to Christian non-Catholic schools too.

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote]So therefore, even if Brittaney's teachers taught on the Rosary, and with Brittaney at the time caring not a thing about it, how would she remember it anyway? lol I mean, my Mom used to go to Catholic school,[b] and the nuns there were royal jerks.[/b] Used to send her off home making her miss the bus (cause usually if one person was bad in class, ALL children had to then stay and they missed the bus) so she had to walk through some of the most bad neighborhoods in Philly, her little 6 year old self, two miles home.[/quote]

Easy Cowboy be nice!
I see something here now it is starting to make sense!

[quote]Does this mean the Church as evil or corrupt? Nooo, it just means some people are all law, and no love. That's only the point I'm making  Which is why I guess if you really want your child in a Catholic school, also make sure the teachers really love the Lord and won't abuse your child in anyway. And that same word goes out to Christian non-Catholic schools too. [/quote]

Thats my job I will teach my children by example and everything I know so school will just be a daily activity. They will know The One True Catholic Faith, we will say the Rosary, they will be taught to AVOID and look out for error. If they see it I will teach them to help correct it. No by God's good grace not this familiy, I pray Lord for your strength to be a good father to my familiy.Amen. That this familiy gives witness to Your One Holy Catholic Church with our whole heart, mind, strength and soul!!!

Pax
Jason