Burn A CD?Why Not Just Steal One.

[Theoketos]

[quote name='princessgianna' post='1839963' date='Apr 18 2009, 09:50 PM'][/quote]


That means it was before the Flood

[princessgianna]

[quote name='Theoketos' post='1839989' date='Apr 18 2009, 08:58 PM']That means it was before the Flood[/quote]
ohh thanks!

[dUSt]

If I buy an album off iTunes, I burn a CD of that album to play in my car.

Also, I have downloaded albums that are no longer in print, and do not feel bad for burning them (because you can't buy them anymore).

Also, I've bought CDs and lost them, and then downloaded the album and burned another CD--because I feel that I have already bought that album.

I guess the question is, if you buy a CD, are you buying the piece of plastic, or or you buying the songs? Isn't iTunes selling the music as opposed to the digital data? I've always thought of it as buying the actual music.

Now, where this gets kinda iffy... There's probably people who've bought thousands of CDs, tapes, 8-tracks and albums in their lifetime... Do they technically own all that music now--and are they free to download those albums with no guilt? I don't know. Tough call. Is there a reasonable time limit (for example, if you bought a tape, what would be the reasonable amount of time that tape would have lasted before the record company expected that you would have had to replace it with another one?) Nowadays, with everything digital MP3s--technically, the music will never wear out and should last forever. Can this time line apply to albums you bought on 8-track?

Where is a papal ruling when you need it!?!?

[Dr_Asik]

You don't buy music, you buy a license to listen to it using the provided media, and accepting all its limitations, including the possibility that it wears, breaks, gets lost, etc.

The music remains the property of whatever label has acquired it (at a price orders of magnitude higher than your CD).

Generally speaking, we should obey civil law unless it forces us to act against divine law. Actually I can't remember where I read that, so I couldn't back it up, but it seems obvious anyway.

In practice, *cough* I advocate a mild relaxation of that rule, although it's always dangerous to some extent, since you're not anonymous on the internet and if you do something illegal it's always possible even if highly improbable that you will get caught and sued. Depending on where you live, this could be an issue or not, in Quebec I didn't heard of anyone getting arrested for filesharing except in cases of child pornography.

Edited April 22, 2009 by Dr_Asik

[Aloysius]

I'm not sure it's justified when you buy a CD and lose it. if you buy a diamond ring and lose it, does that give you permission to get another copy of that diamond ring without paying for it? I think the general principal is that if you buy any item and then lose that item, then you must either consider it lost forever or re-purchase that item.

the other scenarios work fine, I think, with things purchased from itunes or burning albums that are no longer sold, but burning it because you lost it? I don't think that one flies.

[pat22]

PEOPLE THE LAW STATES THAT: YOU CAN BURN A CD OR DVD FOR YOURSELF BUT YOU CAN'T LEND OR SELL IT TO ANYONE. (DO NOT ARGUE WITH THIS ITS TRUE)

[pat22]

PERIOD........

[Moosey]

[quote name='pat22' post='1844552' date='Apr 23 2009, 04:35 PM']PEOPLE THE LAW STATES THAT: YOU CAN BURN A CD OR DVD FOR YOURSELF BUT YOU CAN'T LEND OR SELL IT TO ANYONE. (DO NOT ARGUE WITH THIS ITS TRUE)[/quote]
This is a debate table fella. We're supposed to argue.

[rkwright]

[quote name='dUSt' post='1843666' date='Apr 22 2009, 04:27 PM']If I buy an album off iTunes, I burn a CD of that album to play in my car.

Also, I have downloaded albums that are no longer in print, and do not feel bad for burning them (because you can't buy them anymore).

Also, I've bought CDs and lost them, and then downloaded the album and burned another CD--because I feel that I have already bought that album.

I guess the question is, if you buy a CD, are you buying the piece of plastic, or or you buying the songs? Isn't iTunes selling the music as opposed to the digital data? I've always thought of it as buying the actual music.

Now, where this gets kinda iffy... There's probably people who've bought thousands of CDs, tapes, 8-tracks and albums in their lifetime... Do they technically own all that music now--and are they free to download those albums with no guilt? I don't know. Tough call. Is there a reasonable time limit (for example, if you bought a tape, what would be the reasonable amount of time that tape would have lasted before the record company expected that you would have had to replace it with another one?) Nowadays, with everything digital MP3s--technically, the music will never wear out and should last forever. Can this time line apply to albums you bought on 8-track?

Where is a papal ruling when you need it!?!?[/quote]

I don't think you're buying the actual music.

For example, if I buy the P5C CD, can I go out and perform and say "Hey check out my new track, I bought it yesterday now its mine... this is Listen and Learn by rkwright.. check it..."

If you own the music, you should have all the rights to it, including claiming it as your own right? Because of this I don't think you actually own the music.

[Winchester]

[quote name='pat22' post='1844552' date='Apr 23 2009, 03:35 PM']PEOPLE THE LAW STATES THAT: YOU CAN BURN A CD OR DVD FOR YOURSELF BUT YOU CAN'T LEND OR SELL IT TO ANYONE. (DO NOT ARGUE WITH THIS ITS TRUE)[/quote]
The law also used to state black people were 3/5ths human. And it did so without using all caps.

[dUSt]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1843692' date='Apr 22 2009, 05:49 PM']I'm not sure it's justified when you buy a CD and lose it.[/quote]
Hmm, I thought one of the justifiable reasons to make a copy of a CD is in case you lose it... you don't think this is okay?


[quote name='rkwright' post='1845080' date='Apr 23 2009, 07:25 PM']If you own the music, you should have all the rights to it, including claiming it as your own right? Because of this I don't think you actually own the music.[/quote]
Yeah, obviously I'm not saying you "[b]own[/b] the music", but meant that when you buy a CD you are not buying the round piece of plastic--but are buying the [b]rights[/b] to listen to that music.


After thinking about it, yeah, I think form of media has a lot to do with it. If I've bought a CD in the past, maybe it's not okay to dowload those songs now to burn another copy. I say that because it's the same as vinyl > 8-track > cassette > CD...

Just because people own a Pink Floyd on 8-track doesn't mean they wouldn't have to buy Pink Floyd on cassette, and then eventually again on CD. They'd buy all three versions.

Now, here's a question... What if I buy an MP3 album off of Amazon, and then a year later my computer crashes, and I lose those MP3s... Would I be morally obligated to buy those MP3s again if I wanted the album?

[Sojourner]

[quote name='dUSt' post='1846198' date='Apr 24 2009, 02:46 PM']Hmm, I thought one of the justifiable reasons to make a copy of a CD is in case you lose it... you don't think this is okay?



Yeah, obviously I'm not saying you "[b]own[/b] the music", but meant that when you buy a CD you are not buying the round piece of plastic--but are buying the [b]rights[/b] to listen to that music.


After thinking about it, yeah, I think form of media has a lot to do with it. If I've bought a CD in the past, maybe it's not okay to dowload those songs now to burn another copy. I say that because it's the same as vinyl > 8-track > cassette > CD...

Just because people own a Pink Floyd on 8-track doesn't mean they wouldn't have to buy Pink Floyd on cassette, and then eventually again on CD. They'd buy all three versions.

Now, here's a question... What if I buy an MP3 album off of Amazon, and then a year later my computer crashes, and I lose those MP3s... Would I be morally obligated to buy those MP3s again if I wanted the album?[/quote]
It's a tricky question, legally as well as morally. The rule of thumb is that when you buy a song you buy the rights to use it for your personal enjoyment and that of those in your immediate family. By this rule, it is OK to copy things between media, e.g., to upload CDs to your iTunes account and from there to your mp3 player. It is also OK to make backup copies of songs you have purchased electronically. This is all for your personal use. There are technologies available to transfer songs from vinyl or cassette to digital formats, and I believe those would be fine as well, so long as it is for your personal use.

When you start making copies of songs to give to friends, it is a little grayer. I asked a friend of mine who is an intellectual property attorney about this when I got a mix CD at a mutual friend's wedding, and he said it is OK as long as you are not personally profiting from it. But, it still makes me a little squeamish to put together a mix of my favorite songs and give it out to 100 of my closest friends.

Because it's a small-scale dispersal you probably wouldn't get sued for it ... but you never know. I would say better not do it, although the fact that you are gaining nothing personally is a fact in your favor. Consider the Napster cases. Most, if not all of those, were filed against people who downloaded, in part because the downloaders are the one who gained a benefit (a song) without paying for it.

If you are uploading and getting a fee for it, or selling your wonderful mix CDs without first purchasing distribution rights, you are definitely thieving.

[Dr_Asik]

[quote name='dUSt' post='1846198' date='Apr 24 2009, 05:46 PM']Now, here's a question... What if I buy an MP3 album off of Amazon, and then a year later my computer crashes, and I lose those MP3s... Would I be morally obligated to buy those MP3s again if I wanted the album?[/quote]The only example I know well of digital distribution is Steam. When you buy a video game on Steam, it is tied to your account. You can download and install the game on any computer where Steam is installed, and Steam is a free client. You can do this as many times as you wish. The only way you can lose access to your game is if Steam goes off-line, and that's actually a serious concern for some users (not for me though).

Based on this, I'd expect Amazon to provide a similar service. You should be able to download the album as many times as you want. Check the terms and conditions ! Write a letter to them if you're unhappy with the service.

As for audio CDs, I'm not sure if copying for archival purposes is actually legal, although you certainly would never be sued for that.

Edited April 25, 2009 by Dr_Asik

[Holly3278]

Yes, burning a CD that you don't own or downloading music that you don't own is illegal and is the same as stealing.