Lcwr Communities

[emmaberry]

[quote name='chasmi' timestamp='1341788118' post='2453635']
I think that if everyone will look back on previous threads, Sr. Marie left because of a similar discussion as this. A discussion that passed judgement on the LCWR and became very opinionated.

This is my last time visting this website and I plan to discuss this via email to my Archdiocese as well as with some religious orders whose mother houses are in the area.

Shame on many of you for passing judgement. We are not put on this earth to judge. This is not what Holy Father John Paul II meant for the new evangilization to accomplish.

Religious life is not about what habit is worn or how a long a veil is or how "cool" a habit is...or any number of shallow statements that I've read on this website. Religious life is about SERVING. Talk to some of the older sisters, brothers and priests who entered prior to Vatican 2 and you'll hear the REAL meaning of joining a religious order and being consecrated.

There is some definite maturity needed on this website. THAT's why SR. Marie left...she is mature in her religious vocation as well as personally.
[/quote]
As the OP, I don't think there has been anything on this thread about habits or a lack thereof-only about orthodox teaching and those communities who are in full communion with Rome. As wonderful as I hear that Sister Marie was, those who come back to say 'shame on you' to PMers because of her departure are never very kind or charitable in doing so.

I suggest reading the thread, and of course we could ALL use some extra charity stirred into our comments here on PM... Like MaterMisericordiae said, internet forums are not the ideal means of communication, since things can be read so many different ways than they were originally intended!

Edited July 9, 2012 by emmaberry

[PhuturePriest]

I think we can all use some maturity at times. But people are not perfect and unfortunately we fail. What first got me interested in the Religious life was the Habits. I saw the Franciscan Missionaries of the Eternal Word in person when I was ten and thought they looked so razzle dazzle. It got me interested. A few years later I looked into it and found so much more beyond the Habit; a beautiful lifestyle dedicated to God and prayer, helping each other and the common man in community. We all get interested in things in the visual and romantic aspects at first. What do you think people interested in marriage think about at first? Just listen to little girls when they talk about it. They talk about meeting their prince, living happily ever after and having babies, which they also of course have romantic ideas about. They don't think about the unpleasant things when considering it. The visual and romantic sides of things are what get people interested. If you told those little girls about the pains of labor and how their prince charming may be a jerk at times they would lose interest and would forget about it. There is nothing wrong with being swept away by the romantic side of things. We must of course look deeper into it after our interest is sparked, but there is nothing wrong with first getting interested in something by the visual and romantic aspects, in my humble opinion. I don't know, I may be wrong, but these are my thoughts at this time. I used to be bad about the Habit, as we sometimes are. I wouldn't look into a community if the habit didn't look razzle dazzle, or if there was one thing I didn't like about it, but through perseverance in my discernment and the common interest I had in it I got past these things. Now I don't care if the habit looks razzle dazzle, or if it is wool and hot. But I would never be at this stage had it not been for that first interest I had when I was ten. People mature, not just in their personalities but in their discernment as well. Give people time, give them advice, but don't jump the gun and tell people things that may kill their discernment entirely. You wouldn't yell at a newborn baby for not being able to walk, so don't tell someone that has begun discerning that they shouldn't be interested in the habit. There is nothing wrong with liking the habit. If they have been discerning for years and this is their main concern there is a problem. But some here are still in their "infant years" when it comes to discernment, and I'm still relatively new as well to it.

Sorry if this is all over the place but I am watching an interesting show about fishing in the Amazonian jungle.

Edited July 9, 2012 by FuturePriest387

[PhuturePriest]

[quote name='Blessed&Grateful' timestamp='1341689243' post='2453172']
Sister Marie said she was leaving. Per her post, she did so after great deal of thought and prayers. Unfortunate, because I think many here could have benefited from her wisdom and charity.
[/quote]

Could anyone direct me to this post?

[mantellata]

Dialogue and discussion means we need to both be willing to meet people where they are at. This is a forum. A forum means dialogue. This means that disagreements occur and in the freedom of discussion we all learn.

Back to the original post.... I think emmaberry was trying to figure out how to speak with her dad about a community she was interested in. Like many young discerners, she wanted to be sure that she would be formed in a community that was consonant with Catholic teaching and practice. This makes sense and strikes me as a mature decision - you know your youth, you know you need people who are wiser than yourself, you look for a teacher that will not lead you astray, you don't pridefully consider yourself a "reformer" of a community but come to learn... etc... The LCWR is under investigation - and this is public information. The dissent at the highest level of the LCWR was also public and on the website and professed by key members. I think it has also been established that not every single Sister who is a member of an LCWR community necessarily profess the LCWR views that are in question and we don't want to be condemning innocent individuals. It has also been established that not every single community necessarily likes the direction of the LCWR. I think it is reasonable to ask, if a community as a whole believes this is an issue - why do they remain members? There may be good reasons for this.

All this being said - if we cannot discuss the above and be honest and learn... well... what's the point of a forum at all?

[LaPetiteSoeur]

It was a discussion like this that made me take a tiny break from Phatmass. I work/have worked with several religious communities who are part of the LCWR. I've found nothing but faithful sisters, living out the charism of their founders and their constitutions.
It's really easy on the internet to judge what we do not know. I've found on other websites that the reaction towards ANY sister whose congregation is somehow affiliated with the LCWR to be horrible, scathing, and plain mean in some cases. I've heard/read people saying that "those aren't REAL sisters." I've heard others who judge 78 year old women on their decision to join a certain religious order--when they entered BEFORE Vatican II. It's so uncharitable and very prideful, in my opinion.

I've had the opportunity to talk to many religious sisters whose communities are part of the LCWR. One of them so hurt when so many assumed she was pro-abortion---just because her community is part of the LCWR. She is in NO WAY pro-abortion, and she couldn't believe that so many would judge her incorrectly for nothing more than the initials that follow her name. If she saw what some write on phatmass or other catholic sites, she would cry--it would hurt her so much.

These sisters have been enormously helpful in my discernment. They listened when I was doubting my entire faith and my reasons for staying Catholic. They let me ask questions and were very honest. I'm in Belgium right now, and some of this congregation's sisters in Belgium had me over for a "sleepover" and a tour of the shrine of Notre Dame de Banneux. One was a nurse at this shrine for many years (it also houses a home for the sick, disabled, and dying).

So when I find posts where someone is being brutal towards the sisters I know and love and have found nothing but very true religious, it saddens me. I had to leave PM for a few weeks because I couldn't deal with it.

[NonNovi]

[quote name='LaPetiteSoeur' timestamp='1341814761' post='2453820']
I'm in Belgium right now, and some of this congregation's sisters in Belgium had me over for a "sleepover" and a tour of the shrine of Notre Dame de Banneux.
[/quote]
Where are you staying at the moment? (Banneux is very nice, I know a priest there)

[Blessed&Grateful]

[quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1341805292' post='2453791']
Could anyone direct me to this post?
[/quote]

It was in this thread, it would seem all of Sister Marie's replies are no longer. Perhaps she deleted her account and all posts went poof with it?

Lil' R I thought the same thing but who am I to judge what is appropriate and since she did give it thought and prayer I will assume that she weighed the pros and cons and made the decision that was right for her.

Also, I recall one of her earlier posts (forget the thread actually) where someone warned "to be nice" otherwise we'll run her off too?" It would seem it has come to fruition.

Oops found it I had the wrong post title,
[b] [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/121740-the-lcwr-cdf-and-the-doctrinal-assessment-by-bishop-blair/page__view__findpost__p__2444285"]In Topic: "the Lcwr, Cdf And The Doctrinal Assessment" By Bishop Blair[/url][/b]

13 June 2012 - 10:56 AM

Edited July 9, 2012 by Blessed&Grateful

[HopefulBride]

sigh
:facepalm:

[HopefulBride]

I don't think I've said anything about this back and forth thing about the LCWR and I honestly don't have much to say. What I find ridiculous is how people are up in arms about [i]personal[/i] opinions. This is a public forum and the opinions of the members do not reflect the opinions of the moderating/admin team. The fact that we have people are leaving in anger and others planning on discussing this with one's diocese is baffling to me.

As a very wise and peaceful man once said "be the change you want to see in the world". How about we change this a bit and interpret it as "be the change you want to see on Phatmass?" It does no one here any good for everyone else who sees something wrong in the way the LCWR is discussed to point fingers and distance themselves because the folks talking about the LCWR are so uncharitable and such horrid people. I mean come on! if you think something is wrong with how people are expressing their opinions then charitably point it out; and as the OP stated this thread had nothing to do with what was discussed in earlier threads. The folks pointing fingers are the same folks rehashing stuff from old threads and refusing to let anything die out.

So some of us have offended others in the way we expressed our opinions about some members of the LCWR ok but this has nothing to do with the atmosphere of PM in general and nothing to do with this thread so WHY are we discussing it here?!


OK Ranting.over.


[size=1]I probably need to go to the IAABC thread now...[/size]

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Blessed&Grateful' timestamp='1341856605' post='2453957']Lil' R I thought the same thing but who am I to judge what is appropriate and since she did give it thought and prayer I will assume that she weighed the pros and cons and made the decision that was right for her.[/quote]


didn't mean to imply that she hadn't given it much thought & prayer....and i agree that if people on the internet are disturbing the peace within yourself, then people should take a break...like LPS did.

[emmaberry]

[quote name='HopefulBride' timestamp='1341858252' post='2453981']
As a very wise and peaceful man once said "be the change you want to see in the world". How about we change this a bit and interpret it as "be the change you want to see on Phatmass?" It does no one here any good for everyone else who sees something wrong in the way the LCWR is discussed to point fingers and distance themselves because the folks talking about the LCWR are so uncharitable and such horrid people. I mean come on! if you think something is wrong with how people are expressing their opinions then charitably point it out; and as the OP stated this thread had nothing to do with what was discussed in earlier threads. The folks pointing fingers are the same folks rehashing stuff from old threads and refusing to let anything die out.

So some of us have offended others in the way we expressed our opinions about some members of the LCWR ok but this has nothing to do with the atmosphere of PM in general and nothing to do with this thread so WHY are we discussing it here?!
[/quote]

I am out of props, but this is great.

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[quote name='LaPetiteSoeur' timestamp='1341814761' post='2453820']
I've found on other websites that the reaction towards ANY sister whose congregation is somehow affiliated with the LCWR to be horrible, scathing, and plain mean in some cases. I've heard/read people saying that "those aren't REAL sisters." I've heard others who judge 78 year old women on their decision to join a certain religious order--when they entered BEFORE Vatican II.[/quote]

That's terrible about the other Catholic sites, but I can't recall a post on PM where every sister in the LCWR has been slammed or found guilty by association. Of course, there are questions posed towards those sisters who don't share the LCWR's views and remain in it, which Mantellata included in her post.
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Edited July 9, 2012 by emmaberry

[mantellata]

Small clarification - which I'm sure you meant emmaberry which is that my question is for the communities as a whole. Individual Sisters have no particular say (particularly if they are large communities) if their community is or isn't a member of either the LCWR or the CMSWR. I just wonder (and as I mentioned there may be good reasons) why it is that if a community doesn't agree with the tenants of the LCWR why they would choose to remain.



I'm sure that makes soooo much sense.

Edited July 10, 2012 by mantellata

[emmaberry]

[quote name='mantellata' timestamp='1341890216' post='2454245']
Small clarification - which I'm sure you meant emmaberry which is that my question is for the communities as a whole. Individual Sisters have no particular say (particularly if they are large communities) if their community is or isn't a member of either the LCWR or the CMSWR. I just wonder (and as I mentioned there may be good reasons) why it is that if a community doesn't agree with the tenants of the LCWR why they would choose to remain.



I'm sure that makes soooo much sense.
[/quote]

No-good clarification! Totally makes sense too.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='Blessed&Grateful' timestamp='1341856605' post='2453957']
It was in this thread, it would seem all of Sister Marie's replies are no longer. Perhaps she deleted her account and all posts went poof with it?

Lil' R I thought the same thing but who am I to judge what is appropriate and since she did give it thought and prayer I will assume that she weighed the pros and cons and made the decision that was right for her.

[/quote]

Someone will set me straight if I have this wrong, but at least in the past, it was general policy on Phatmass to delete all "good-bye" posts. Personally, I think this is a good policy. (Not that anyone asked me for my opinion.)

As for all of Sister Marie's replies to any posts disappearing, I was under the impression that that rarely happened. I thought that posts remained, even if the person asked for their account and all their posts to be deleted. (There were some obvious exceptions for "troll" posts and there have been times when all past posts before cetain dates have been deleted--I assume due to storage issues, etc.) Since we can't "search" for a person's posts anymore (I wish we could, but I'm not losing sleep over it), I have no idea if all Sister Marie's posts have disappeared or not. Phatmass has made a number of technological and policy changes even in the couple of years I have been a member, so it could be that people are now able to request that all their posts be removed.

In any case, what I HAVE found is that even if a person chooses to leave, that doesn't mean they won't return to Phatmass later. Heck, I haven't been a member for all that long and I have already taken several "sabbaticals"--some "on purpose," some just because I got out of the habit of posting, or even out of the habit of using the computer very often. For me, at least, it often has helped my perspective to step away for a time. And, because posting takes time, many times I have found that when I didn't post (or didn't post as often) the time I previously used to spend posting was instead spent in prayer or spiritual reading and I benefitted spiritually.

Internet boards are a strange animal--sometimes wonderful, sometimes awful, and not for everyone. And, even for people who like them in general, a particular board may not be right for a given individual, or not the right place for someone to post at a specific point in time.

I like having current members of religious communities posting in VS. Since so many VS posters hope to be in religious life in the future, I think it helps to hear from those who are currently in religious life. So, I hope Sister Marie returns when/if ever she feels it is the right thing to do so. (I confess that I was on one of my "sabbaticals" for most of the time that Sister Marie posted, so I don't feel like I know much about her.)

Back to the topic--thank-you for letting me put in a "sidebar."

Edited July 10, 2012 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[andibc]

I have not read all of this thread so perhaps someone has already suggested "Sisters in Crises" which devels deeply into what happened and why both psychologically, politically and culturally. The author of "Sisters in Crises" spent years studying the situation; it's a very enlightening read showing that it's not all as simple as it may seem at first glance. You can also watch interviews with her, here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3QJw5_sbEo
and here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xv3qvEbOAzc