Lcwr Communities

[Gemma]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1341489064' post='2452480']
Gemma - It is very irresponsible of you to post something like this without offering some verifiable source of information. I know these women and they are lovely, kind and very charitable to others. They helped me at a time when I needed it very much. There are many small Carmelite communities in the world and yes, some of them may have to merge with others (many in the UK are doing this) but calling it 'dying' and using terms like 'from what I've heard' as evidence is simply gossip and uncharitable in essence. I am disappointed that you should write such a thing.
[/quote]

I will speak to the best of my capability, and seeing as I have a communications problem, this is a challenge.

As I said in another thread, we rely on feedback from discerners. "Dying" in our nomenclature means that they've had a net loss of vocations--many to come and go, and sisters being called home. This puts them into a classification of "serious" condition within my organization.

That being said, I was relying on information relayed to me by discerners. I have actually made referrals to the Carmel of San Diego, and I am wondering if the white veil may be one of them. A San Diegan who was in discernment didn't know they were there.

One of the Carmels in Missouri is down to one nun. The monastery is for sale. I am not sure if they would accept new vocations or not.

Blessings,
Gemma

[Gemma]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1341519571' post='2452583']
I stand by what I said. It was not up to me to disprove an unfounded allegation that '[i]the Carmel of San Diego is also dying, from what I've heard'[/i]. If anyone is going to make such inflammatory comments, then s/he should at least offer more evidence than it is something was 'heard'.

I have never visited this Carmel nor even spoken with one of these nuns on the phone to my knowledge. I am not trying to defend a community that is 'close to my heart', I am trying to stop the phatmass vocation station from becoming a place of rumor and innuendo, gossip and irresponsible comments. To say that a community is 'dying' invokes images that might cause discerners to lose interest in the community, which is a disservice to them, especially considering that Gemma does state that her website and groups are designed to foster and promote vocations. I not only think the comment was unhelpful, I think it was potentially damaging to future vocations for this community.

I have had interaction with this Carmel and during this time they acted wtih charity and consideration, generosityof spirit and of time and materials to someone they didn't know, had never met before and would probably never communicate with again. I just felt that as they are a legitimately recognised community of OCD Carmelites who live the religious life according to the charism of their foundress, that they should not be described in such a derogatory way. I am sorry that you do not see the inappropriateness of the comment.

I did not personally attack Gemma nor write with any intention of a lack of charity. In fact, I think it is more of a charity to correct each other when these things are posted, explaining our reasons why so that hopefully similar comments will not be repeated. We are speaking about vowed religious here and I think a certain amount of respect is due them.
[/quote]

I see inconsistencies in this post. First, it is stated that there has been no contact. Then contact has been made.

I do consider the posts to be personal attacks.

Blessings,
Gemma

[Gemma]

[quote name='MaterMisericordiae' timestamp='1341503647' post='2452518']
^This.

I have seen several communities on IRL such as the Sister Adorers of the Precious Blood not receive any vocations in quite a long time. The one in Watertown, NY only has 5 members and they are all professed and look to be in their 50s or 60s. However, if you look at their charism, it is incredibly beautiful. Their habit may be modified, but this accommodates their changing health needs. If I felt called to cloistered life, I would consider them. They have a sister community in Manchester, NH that has 26 Sisters. But this doesn't mean that the Watertown Sisters are any less of a religious community. They are on IRL and are faithful to the Magisterium. It could be that the Sisters don't have enough experience with technology so they don't know how to promote more vocations or they prefer a quieter presence. There are some communities that rely on God's providence rather than promoting themselves through the media.

Consider the Lockport Dominicans. For a time, they opened up to the idea of promoting vocations through the media, even starting a Facebook page and allowing a news crew to film their Sister's investiture ceremony. However, they decided to quietly retreat back into cloistered life. Now, some people might think that they may not draw as many vocations, but God always provides.

I want to leave you with one last thought -- don't consider the size of the community but consider how a smaller number of people are responding to God's call to lead a religious life. I know that the number is increasing, but we've been through a bit of a vocations crisis. It may take some time for some communities to gain the vocations they need. Let us, instead, pray for them to receive vocations instead of criticizing their numbers.
[/quote]

Thank you for the support.

I also thank you for bringing up the Sisters Adorers of the Precious Blood. The NH house is doing well. They have received a lot of late vocations. (Those with weight problems have to consider the long hallways and stairs).

Please do look into the SAPB. July is the Month of the Precious Blood. There are a number of PB communities out there.

Blessings,
Gemma

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='Gemma' timestamp='1341571699' post='2452792']
I see inconsistencies in this post. First, it is stated that there has been no contact. Then contact has been made.

I do consider the posts to be personal attacks.

Blessings,
Gemma
[/quote]

I am sorry you feel that this is simply a personal attack because it means you don't understand what I was trying to say. As for the contact with the nuns, if you re-read my post, I did not write that I had no contact, I wrote that I had not visited or spoken with these nuns and I have not, I have written and made a request which involved considerable time and effort and probably some expense on their part for someone they did not know. They responded in a truly kind and generous way. I have not had any contact with them since then.

As for 'dying' - an established community is not usually barred rom receiving new applicants unless they are down to less than three nuns, and even then, their Bishop may be accommodating if he so desires. Many new communities start off with three or less and then flourish. I don't think it is for any of us as individuals to say when a community is 'dying'.

I understand that you have communication problems as my brother suffers from the same condition and I am quite familiar with it. That doesn't excuse you from not correcting your errors. You have taken on a daunting task, to keep discerners informed about communities. I applaud this effort, but it does place a greater burden upon you to be accurate in your information and not to post hearsay, especially if it might be potentially damaging to a community.

There is nothing personal in my posts about you, my comments were only about the information you provided. I hope you will be able to accept the correction and move forward with an enhanced sense of responsibility for the information you provide. Thank you.

PS
As you have stated on another topic that you do not see any error on your part. I withdraw from the thread. We can agree to disagree.

Edited July 6, 2012 by nunsense

[Gemma]

[quote name='SNJM' timestamp='1341494653' post='2452492']
LCWR is under scrutiny - and as of now, roughly. 80% of religious communities in the US belong to this group. If you read the entire eight page report, most of the concerns center around materials that have been presented at meetings, mostly concerning formation.

I would suggest that this subject is treated with respect and some sort of prudence. The report begins with a commendation of the good works the Sisters of this federation have provided over hundreds of years; schooling - from pre-K to graduate school, hospital care, social justice (which we are called to do) and many other things.

I am surprised at the kind of blanket, hostile and very judgmental comments found here. There is a tendency to fall back on black/white thinking which indicates a very young mind which has not had the benefit of experience. Numsense perhaps said it better.
[/quote]

One reason why I haven't issued an "official" opinion on the matter. I haven't seen the documentation. I prefer to pray for guidance for all involved.

I have the US Nursing site for a reason--the "graybie" generation is up and coming, and our health care systems are being sold to seculars.

If you're attracted to a community, follow your heart. If you see something heterodox, report it. It's that simple.

Blessings,
Gemma

[Gemma]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1341572494' post='2452796']
I am sorry you feel that this is simply a personal attack because it means you don't understand what I was trying to say. As for the contact with the nuns, if you re-read my post, I did not write that I had no contact, I wrote that I had not visited or spoken with these nuns and I have not, I have written and made a request which involved considerable time and effort and probably some expense on their part for someone they did not know. They responded in a truly kind and generous way. I have not had any contact with them since then.

As for 'dying' - an established community is not usually barred rom receiving new applicants unless they are down to less than three nuns, and even then, their Bishop may be accommodating if he so desires. Many new communities start off with three or less and then flourish. I don't think it is for any of us as individuals to say when a community is 'dying'.

I understand that you have communication problems as my brother suffers from the same condition and I am quite familiar with it. That doesn't excuse you from not correcting your errors. You have taken on a daunting task, to keep discerners informed about communities. I applaud this effort, but it does place a greater burden upon you to be accurate in your information and not to post hearsay, especially if it might be potentially damaging to a community.

There is nothing personal in my posts about you, my comments were only about the information you provided. I hope you will be able to accept the correction and move forward with an enhanced sense of responsibility for the information you provide. Thank you.

PS
As you have stated on another topic that you do not see any error on your part. I withdraw from the thread. We can agree to disagree.
[/quote]

The community itself can make the decision as to whether or not to accept new postulants. That's usually the way it goes. The Church leaves it up to the individuals who comprise the association. When the association is ready for recognition, the bishop does his part. If the association cannot continue, they inform the bishop.

Then there are situations like the former Intercessors.

And the Australian Redemptoristines.

The two situations are very unique and very different.

The latter situation still merits our prayers. The former does as well, but not as urgently as the latter. The Redemptoristines are still up and running.

Blessings,
Gemma

Edited July 6, 2012 by Gemma

[Thijs]

I agree with Gemma the most. LCWR has already gone overboard. Charity without justice is not charity might call it as well as plain stupidity. Call a spade spade nothing else. As a sister you offer your life to God for His church and it's people and for the Church's mission. If you have nuns/sisters who questions the basis of our faith ie the priesthood is for men only, the holiness and sacredness of Mass not chakras enneagram or whatsoever, that as a sister your daily Mass is the source of your strength for the day not Zen meditation.That Humanae vitae is a teaching of the Church not just an opinion of bishops and the Pope and you have the obligation to defend it and explain it in accordance to circumstances without circumventing the very teaching of the Church, that prayer whether as a community or as an individual prayer sister is the source of your inspiration not to rally in front of the military or nuclear base, or calling some positive energy somewhere..

In simple marketing terms, if you are working for Coca Cola you must know Coke very well and be able to convince the people that it is god, the best and I as consumer will be convinced to buy it? if a Coke employee will start telling people bad things about Coke should not as a common sense an employer should fire her right and then? Why work for something that you don't agree to love?

" By their fruits you should know them.."

If I have a friend who is discerning to be a sister, as a faithful Catholic if she says she is discerning to join the Sister of Mercies of the Americas, should i not tell her otherwise? Of course common sense will tell me I should not counting on their sisters history how many excommunicated members they have and how many disgraceful members as well. and I will not mince words for them because it the first place it's true,. If there is still 100% faithful to the Church thank God for her. As a good friend I would really advise her to consider Religious Sisters of Alma or Sisters of St Rita or Sisters of the Resurrection. If she doesn't feel like waring the habit she might as well consider the Apostles of Interior Life, the Missionary of God's Love Sister or the Society Devoted to the Sacred Heart."

Which brings the another question, among the LCWR communites, how many among them supports the bishop's call for the Fortnight of Freedom, Humanae Vitae, that priesthood is for men not for women?....

Take a look for this link and judge for yourself...

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2012/04/nuns-gone-wild-a-trip-down-memory-lane/

[emmaberry]

[quote name='MichaelKoenigTalidong' timestamp='1341635023' post='2453037']
[url="http://wdtprs.com/blog/2012/04/nuns-gone-wild-a-trip-down-memory-lane/"]http://wdtprs.com/bl...wn-memory-lane/[/url]
[/quote]

I cried while reading that link. Of course, part of this is because I am a (naive) newer Catholic. All we can do for these women on the blog and others like them are more prayer and penance.

[Thijs]

I am quite reading about each of these congregations history and how the early sisters sweated tears and blood just to be faithful, their service, their fights from anti-catholicism, from klu klux klan on how they suffered to found these hospitals, these schools and universities while being faithful to their calling, to God and to his Church and look how much these current nuns destroyed them.. these saints must be bleeding in heaven looking at them now.
I am a convert myself, penance and prayers that faithful sisters will grow in numbers and their apostolates

[PhuturePriest]

For clarification: Is Sister Marie coming back?! I am absolutely devastated to know she left!

[organwerke]

[quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1341644197' post='2453066']
For clarification: Is Sister Marie coming back?! I am absolutely devastated to know she left!
[/quote]

?

[Blessed&Grateful]

Sister Marie said she was leaving. Per her post, she did so after great deal of thought and prayers. Unfortunate, because I think many here could have benefited from her wisdom and charity.

[chasmi]

I think that if everyone will look back on previous threads, Sr. Marie left because of a similar discussion as this. A discussion that passed judgement on the LCWR and became very opinionated.

This is my last time visting this website and I plan to discuss this via email to my Archdiocese as well as with some religious orders whose mother houses are in the area.

Shame on many of you for passing judgement. We are not put on this earth to judge. This is not what Holy Father John Paul II meant for the new evangilization to accomplish.

Religious life is not about what habit is worn or how a long a veil is or how "cool" a habit is...or any number of shallow statements that I've read on this website. Religious life is about SERVING. Talk to some of the older sisters, brothers and priests who entered prior to Vatican 2 and you'll hear the REAL meaning of joining a religious order and being consecrated.

There is some definite maturity needed on this website. THAT's why SR. Marie left...she is mature in her religious vocation as well as personally.

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='chasmi' timestamp='1341788118' post='2453635']
I think that if everyone will look back on previous threads, Sr. Marie left because of a similar discussion as this. A discussion that passed judgement on the LCWR and became very opinionated.

This is my last time visting this website and I plan to discuss this via email to my Archdiocese as well as with some religious orders whose mother houses are in the area.

Shame on many of you for passing judgement. We are not put on this earth to judge. This is not what Holy Father John Paul II meant for the new evangilization to accomplish.

Religious life is not about what habit is worn or how a long a veil is or how "cool" a habit is...or any number of shallow statements that I've read on this website. Religious life is about SERVING. Talk to some of the older sisters, brothers and priests who entered prior to Vatican 2 and you'll hear the REAL meaning of joining a religious order and being consecrated.

There is some definite maturity needed on this website. THAT's why SR. Marie left...she is mature in her religious vocation as well as personally.
[/quote]

This is the first and only time I have ever wanted to comment on something such as this. I'm going to try to be as charitable as I can so bear with me.

You have to understand that many on this phorum have never entered religious life. Some hold romantic notions about the habit or community living. All I know is I used to be the very same way. It lasted about 2 years and I slowly opened up my mind to the idea of religious life without the habit. I know it's not for me, but I would never discount a religious now because they don't wear the habit. It's not usually up to the individual Sister -- it's what the community decides. The Daughters of Charity of Emmitsburg, MD are one exception -- they allow their Sisters to chose if they want to wear a veil.

The thing is, if you don't have experience, you can't know these things from the outside. What needs to be said here is stuff to educate others not to demean or demand that things change. I didn't want to see Sr. Marie go either because I really enjoyed reading what she wrote. It's always helpful when people who are living the life can answer questions and give an experienced viewpoint. What I don't like is harsh critical tones when people disagree. It's not necessary. Posting on a forum is not for everyone. Individual personality cannot be conveyed over the internet so people can take it either way. I've learned that it's best to give the benefit of the doubt until I know for sure.

And I don't post this to criticize anyone. I post this to help others understand where new & old discerners come from outside of religious life. I hope we can get along for the love of Christ Jesus. Pax.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='chasmi' timestamp='1341788118' post='2453635']There is some definite maturity needed on this website. THAT's why SR. Marie left...she is mature in her religious vocation as well as personally.[/quote]

so....this part of the phorum needs maturity, but those who are "mature" won't stick around to help out. hmmm....makes sense.