Morals...

[Fiat_Voluntas_Tua]

I was talking to my sister today about morals. She was saying that she does not have the right to tell people what is right or wrong. She says that people have the right to make decisions. She says that she has morals but she doesn't feel that they should be enforced on anyone. I was saying that there is a specific moral right and wrong...but she keeps telling me that she doesn't think so, because how can everyone have the same moral values if the all experience different lives. (i.e. living in the inner city vs. living in the suburbs.) She says that if a kid grows up in the ghetto and he learns that it is ok to swear and have premarital sex than to him he isn't being immoral. I disagree with her but i am not really sure why...what do you guys think.

Pax et Agape per Mariam, andy

[Crusader_4]

perhaps but truth is eternal...

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote]She says that people have the right to make decisions[/quote]

You have a free will to choose not a right to sin.

[quote]because how can everyone have the same moral values if the all experience different lives. (i.e. living in the inner city vs. living in the suburbs.)[/quote]

Those are different places and situations, morals stay the same, so just because I would live in the suburbs wouldn't give me the right to sin

[quote]She says that if a kid grows up in the ghetto and he learns that it is ok to swear and have premarital sex than to him he isn't being immoral.[/quote]

No it is still wrong. The poor child might not have a proper teaching, but we all have that little voice that tells you that what your doing is wrong. I know if you keep sinning you become numb to it, it becomes easy to do, but the morals still stays the same, you just use your free will.

We do not have a right to sin, actually it is the other way around we are obligated to keep His Commandments! But God gave us a free will to choose, not a right.

[quote][b]John 14:23-24[/b]

Jesus answered and said to him,[b]"Whoever loves me will keep my word,[/b] and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our dwelling with him. [b]Whoever does not love me does not keep my words;[/b] yet the word you hear is not mine but that of the Father who sent me."[/quote]

God Bless
Pax
Jason

[Fiat_Voluntas_Tua]

true that...my sister is agnostic...

She would say..."but if that kid in the ghetto doesn't know what is moral, how can he know what is immoral...like some people do have a conscience...but what about those whose conscience say that it is ok to do this stuff. and they have no teachers to teach them proper moral values...how can that kid be moral if all he knows and all he feels and all he experiences is immoral (but the thing is that the kid thinks he is being moral)?

(once again these are not my thoughts)

Pax et Agape per Mariam, Andy

[Crusader_4]

Hit your sister next time you see her.... hit her hard in the shoulder..if she says what did you do that for? say i want to and i feel it is right. She cannot say dont do it because there is no eternal standard or right or wrong accoreding to her. There is a standard upon which we all realize what is right or wrong regardless of race or situation. The standard is embedded in us. She wont say to you...to hell with your standard because she justifies her reasoning according to an absoulout truth.

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote name='thywillbedone7' date='May 16 2004, 04:06 PM'] true that...my sister is agnostic...

She would say..."but if that kid in the ghetto doesn't know what is moral, how can he know what is immoral...like some people do have a conscience...but what about those whose conscience say that it is ok to do this stuff. and they have no teachers to teach them proper moral values...how can that kid be moral if all he knows and all he feels and all he experiences is immoral (but the thing is that the kid thinks he is being moral)?

(once again these are not my thoughts)

Pax et Agape per Mariam, Andy [/quote]
Thats where people like us come in

I say it still doesn't make the sin "right" or "OK" God knows the heart so their personal judgment I can't say anything about, but if they sin it is still sin and they need to be told so.

If we can't get to people like this to tell them, then we should always pray for them.

God Bless
Jason

[Hananiah]

Andy, I think your sister needs to draw a distinction between the objective gravity of a sin and the subjective culpability of the person who commits it. Pre-marital sex is objectively a sin in any context, but someone who was never taught that would not be as guilty as someone who had a good Catholic upbringing but forsook it at a later date.

[Dave]

She says she doesn't have the right to tell people what's right or wrong? So then according to her logic, that we have no right to tell people not to murder, steal, lie, etc.

Edited May 17, 2004 by Dave

[cmotherofpirl]

So if somebody smacks her, robs her or hurts her its ok?

The idea that we cannot tell someone else what to do or not do, is ludicrous if you take the concept out to its loggical conclusions. Most people are unwilling to think that far.
Help your sister see the conclusions of this train of thought.

Or ask her if she wants to drive in traffic with people who think that a traffic light is only a suggestion.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='thywillbedone7' date='May 16 2004, 03:01 PM'] I was talking to my sister today about morals. She was saying that she does not have the right to tell people what is right or wrong. She says that people have the right to make decisions. She says that she has morals but she doesn't feel that they should be enforced on anyone. I was saying that there is a specific moral right and wrong...but she keeps telling me that she doesn't think so, because how can everyone have the same moral values if the all experience different lives. (i.e. living in the inner city vs. living in the suburbs.) She says that if a kid grows up in the ghetto and he learns that it is ok to swear and have premarital sex than to him he isn't being immoral. I disagree with her but i am not really sure why...what do you guys think.

Pax et Agape per Mariam, andy [/quote]
Read "A Refutation of Moral Relativism: Interviews with an Absolutist" by Peter Kreeft. It's not that long, and it directly addresses the questions your sister is bringing up.

Now, whether or not she'll be willing to honestly acknowledge where her views are not consistent is another question, but the book could be helpful. It's an interesting read, at least.