Papist Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' timestamp='1340223600' post='2446811'] I think there are people with an atheistic philosophy who have to some extent recruited evolutionary theory in support of their worldview, but such activities are outside of the science of biology. These are philosophical and theological debates. Perhaps evolution contradicts the erroneous theological views of some people, but according to the Church evolution and Catholicism are compatible. Here is a quote from Pope Benedict that I wholeheartedly agree with. "Currently, I see in Germany, but also in the United States, a somewhat fierce debate raging between so-called “creationism†and evolutionism, presented as though they were mutually exclusive alternatives: those who believe in the Creator would not be able to conceive of evolution, and those who instead support evolution would have to exclude God. This antithesis is absurd because, on the one hand, there are so many scientific proofs in favour of evolution which appears to be a reality we can see and which enriches our knowledge of life and being as such. But on the other, the doctrine of evolution does not answer every query, especially the great philosophical question: where does everything come from? And how did everything start which ultimately led to man? I believe this is of the utmost importance." (From [url="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2007/july/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20070724_clero-cadore_en.html"]this speech[/url] found via [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_evolution"]this page[/url].) I also like this B16 quote from the book [i]Creation and Evolution[/i]. "The theory of evolution does not invalidate the faith, nor does it corroborate it. But it does challenge the faith to understand itself more profoundly and thus to help man to understand himself and to become increasingly what he is: the being who is supposed to say Thou to God in eternity." [/quote] I am not arguing against evolution. In fact, I have not taken a stance here, I don't believe. I concur with the Church on the matter. Science cannot contradict Revelation and visa versa. I have talked to people that believe that evolution concretely points to the nonexistence of God. And when I argue to the contrary they take me as saying I don't believe in evolution. It is very frustrating. I suggest they consider that God is designing the evolution. They are dumbfounded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixpence Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 SO basically I am pretty confused as to where all the hostility in this thread came from..... we all seem to agree????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixpence Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 fundies hijacked "creationism" atheists hijacked "darwinism" all us poor Catholics are left with is "logic" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Seems that we are aggressively agreeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 [color=#575757]You have reached your quota of positive votes for the day[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus_lol Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 L_D, you cant logic someone out of a position that they did not logic themselves into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark of the Cross Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 [quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1340243077' post='2446911'] L_D, you cant logic someone out of a position that they did not logic themselves into. [/quote] You'd be surprised what you can do with a 'worm hole'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 [quote name='Mark of the Cross' timestamp='1340243805' post='2446919'] You'd be surprised what you can do with a 'worm hole'! [/quote] I usually fill it with putty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) Whatever way God created and creates life, He creates life. God could have used a Neo-Darwinian structure to do it. I have doubts that He did, yes based on Doctrine in part for big and good reasons, but it isn't the main reason and most certainly not the only. My doctrinal concerns about the this theory is, perhaps, based more on how it is presented by some Neo-Darwinists when it is used as atheistic dogma or denies the existence of our first parents. But even without the doctrinal concerns, even if I was a atheist, I still believe I would be highly critical of Neo-Darwinism. I would still find it compelling, as I do now but I would still have doubts. I still wouldn't like how it seems to have become dogma that no man may rationally object. Too many of those that do raise questions don't just have their theories questioned, but their characters attacked and their jobs lost or threatened. No, not the creationists, or even the intelligent designers (even tough they are accused as such to discredit them), but scientists that have what seems to be rational and logical concerns about elements of Neo-Darwinism. Such as a single common ancestry, random mutation, natural selection, the sudden appearance and disappearance of numerous species, etc. When such people have their characters attacked and not just their ideas questioned, it makes it look as if Darwinists are panicing and fear that other ideas may challenge their world view. Plus such emotionalism doesn't belong in science anyway even if it doesn't mean Darwinist are afraid of other scientific ideas about origins. I understand that I do not understand all there is to understand about Neo-Darwinism, but the main reason I have doubts about it is because I do believe the Earth is about 4.6 billion of years old, and I do not believe science as of yet understands all there is to know about how life came to be and whether or not or how it evolved. Yes, quite compelling theories that account for quite a few of puzzle pieces of the over all picture. But for me too many pieces are still missing in all those billions of years for me to devote myself to Neo-Darwinism as the only rational option. It may still be shown to be flawed, it may be superseded by another theory, it may not. Edited June 21, 2012 by KnightofChrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark of the Cross Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I'm pretty sure that's your second post Knight. And it's already been covered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Mark of the Cross' timestamp='1340245785' post='2446940'] I'm pretty sure that's your second post Knight. And it's already been covered. [/quote] I said in my first post I would only address what I addressed in that post and no other post about what [u]was[/u] happening in this thread. I have done that. The purpose of my second post was addressing my over all issues and concerns about Neo-Darwinism outside of PM. I believe you have some how misunderstood me. Edited June 21, 2012 by KnightofChrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Science can purify religion from error and superstition; religion can purify science from idolatry and false absolutes. Each can draw the other into a wider world, a world in which both can flourish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus_lol Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1340243672' post='2446916'] [/quote] that wasnt in response to you btw, that was just a general response to L_D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacksheep Posted June 21, 2012 Author Share Posted June 21, 2012 wow..didn't expect my post to get so much heat...i'm intrigued and enjoying the debate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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