CMoon72 Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 [quote name='apostolicfathers' timestamp='1339613234' post='2444339'] I have a new book that is very well-documented and makes a great case against praying or receiving the Sacraments from Heretics and Schismatics. The SSPX have disobeyed BXVI and fell into Schism and those that adhered to their Schism were excommunicated too! [url="http://www.amazon.com/Rome-Has-Spoken-William-Detucci/dp/1105512509/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1339612967&sr=1-2"]http://www.amazon.co...39612967&sr=1-2[/url] I know some people at SSPX chapels and they state that they are Catholic. Oddly, after reading the many testamonies in this book it is hard to see how one can be Catholic and reject the Papacy. Communion with Heretics is sinful and after reading Rome Has Spoken by William DeTucci I was conviced never to approach the SSPX unless they repented and came back to the Church. The matter of Communicatio in Sacris seems so forgotten today. I went to a friend's house and he said that he prays with Protestants all the time. Funny, how can one say he is Catholic and pray with one outside the Church? Oh well! Food for thought! [/quote] Interesting...First, the SSPX are not nor have they ever been in schism, despite what this deTucci fella has to say. What Lefevbre did was tantamount to a schismatic act, but a schism has never been declared. That is a HUGE distinction to make. The SSPX have never disobeyed Benedict XVI, the SSPX disobeyed John Paul II, but that was reconciled in 2009. And discussion of such was put to rest with the document lifting the excommunications. Please don't slander them like that, while they might be in an irregular state for the moment, they will be reconciled soon and they will excercise a regular ministry. To put your eggs in just one basket with regard to the Church is dangerous. I tend to read what the Church has said and I go off of that, not some guy who most people have never heard of. How do you know that a Protestant is a heretic? Do they fill all of the qualifications? Are they material heretics or are they formal heretics? That makes a difference. In order to be a heretic, one must first be a Catholic. Is this Protestant a fallen away Catholic? Are you receiving Holy Communion? Because that is what Communio in Sacris really deals with. To simply pray with a Protestant isn't sinful. But allowing them to influence your faith and to distort the truth is. So, if you are not strong enough to theologically distinguish, then you should just stay away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 good points, andy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMoon72 Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 [quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1339886838' post='2445395'] good points, andy. [/quote] Who's andy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 [quote name='CMoon72' timestamp='1339896704' post='2445415'] Who's andy? [/quote] [img]http://cdn.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/oh-you-40.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 [quote name='CMoon72' timestamp='1339896704' post='2445415'] Who's andy? [/quote] [img]http://images2.fanpop.com/image/answers/691000/691762_1277335473881.57res_500_275.jpg[/img]It actually might not be Andy. He doesn't seem to be vitriolic enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfink Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 [quote name='r2Dtoo' timestamp='1339794630' post='2445183'] Would you pray the Hail Mary with a Protestant whore you meant while doing street evangelization? [/quote] Intentional troll is intentional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 iono why, but that made me chuckle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amory Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 [quote name='apostolicfathers' timestamp='1339613234' post='2444339'] Communion with Heretics is sinful and after reading Rome Has Spoken by William DeTucci I was conviced never to approach the SSPX unless they repented and came back to the Church. [/quote] The SSPX is arguably schismatic, but I've seen no evidence that it's heretical. It's fine that you want to avoid the SSPX unless (or, more likely, until) it is reconciled with Rome, but you should be careful to describe accurately the group you are arguing against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amory Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Also, in relation to the topic title of this thread, the following is a good and relatively recent article that describes when and if it's proper to pray with non-Catholics: [url="http://www.christendom-awake.org/pages/thomas-crean/praying-with-non-catholics.htm"]http://www.christendom-awake.org/pages/thomas-crean/praying-with-non-catholics.htm[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG45 Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 [quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1339898956' post='2445429'] [img]http://cdn.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/oh-you-40.jpg[/img] [/quote] Judging from MiKolbe's comment and Red's poster here, I'd say Cam is back under a different name and the same IP address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PilgrimageOfGrace Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 I'm not sure what status the SSPX has now, but it definitely was in schism -- they broke canon law not only in ordaining those 4 Bishops illicitly (which does carry an automatic excommunication) but also in that there were not 3 Bishops present making it illicit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest apostolicfathers Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 [quote name='Hubertus' timestamp='1339798238' post='2445198'] Interesting.. Does anyone have any sources on past restrictions of praying with heretics, and Communicatio in Sacris? I'm not finding much with Google except from fringe sedevecantist/conclavist groups. [/quote] [b]St. Theodore the Studite[/b] said: “There exist two fornications: one concerns the faith and the other the body. He who has been taken by communion with heretics—he is the one who has fornicated with regard to God.†Taken from the Book: Rome Has Spoken by William DeTucci Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 [quote name='apostolicfathers' timestamp='1340058130' post='2446016'] [b]St. Theodore the Studite[/b] said: “There exist two fornications: one concerns the faith and the other the body. He who has been taken by communion with heretics—he is the one who has fornicated with regard to God.†Taken from the Book: Rome Has Spoken by William DeTucci [/quote] Saints are holy, not infallible, big but important detail. The heretics of St Theodore's day were not protestants either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amory Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) [quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1340201583' post='2446680'] The heretics of St Theodore's day were not protestants either. [/quote] Nevertheless, just like today's Protestants, most Nestorians and Monophysites in St. Theodore's day were from families that had belonged to those religions for centuries. Edited June 21, 2012 by Amory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PilgrimageOfGrace Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 [quote name='apostolicfathers' timestamp='1340058130' post='2446016'] [b]St. Theodore the Studite[/b] said: “There exist two fornications: one concerns the faith and the other the body. He who has been taken by communion with heretics—he is the one who has fornicated with regard to God.†Taken from the Book: Rome Has Spoken by William DeTucci [/quote]..that's anecdotal: [left][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][color="#000000"][i]Ever hear of the prayer of St. Bridget?[/i][/color][/font][/left] [left][size=2][b]St Brigid's Prayer[/b][/size][/left] [size=2][color=#000000][font=arial, helvetica, tahoma, verdana, geneva, lucida,]I'd like to give a lake of beer to God.[/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=arial, helvetica, tahoma, verdana, geneva, lucida,]I'd love the Heavenly[/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=arial, helvetica, tahoma, verdana, geneva, lucida,]Host to be tippling there[/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=arial, helvetica, tahoma, verdana, geneva, lucida,]For all eternity.[/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=arial, helvetica, tahoma, verdana, geneva, lucida,]I'd love the men of Heaven to live with me,[/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=arial, helvetica, tahoma, verdana, geneva, lucida,]To dance and sing.[/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=arial, helvetica, tahoma, verdana, geneva, lucida,]If they wanted, I'd put at their disposal[/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=arial, helvetica, tahoma, verdana, geneva, lucida,]Vats of suffering.[/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=arial, helvetica, tahoma, verdana, geneva, lucida,]White cups of love I''d give them,[/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=arial, helvetica, tahoma, verdana, geneva, lucida,]With a heart and a half;[/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=arial, helvetica, tahoma, verdana, geneva, lucida,]Sweet pitchers of mercy I'd offer[/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=arial, helvetica, tahoma, verdana, geneva, lucida,]To every man.[/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=arial, helvetica, tahoma, verdana, geneva, lucida,]I'd make Heaven a cheerful spot,[/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=arial, helvetica, tahoma, verdana, geneva, lucida,]Because the happy heart is true.[/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=arial, helvetica, tahoma, verdana, geneva, lucida,]I'd make the men contented for their own sake[/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=arial, helvetica, tahoma, verdana, geneva, lucida,]I'd like Jesus to love me too.[/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=arial, helvetica, tahoma, verdana, geneva, lucida,]I'd like the people of heaven to gather[/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=arial, helvetica, tahoma, verdana, geneva, lucida,]From all the parishes around,[/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=arial, helvetica, tahoma, verdana, geneva, lucida,]I'd give a special welcome to the women,[/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=arial, helvetica, tahoma, verdana, geneva, lucida,]The three Marys of great renown.[/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=arial, helvetica, tahoma, verdana, geneva, lucida,]I'd sit with the men, the women of God[/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=arial, helvetica, tahoma, verdana, geneva, lucida,]There by the lake of beer[/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=arial, helvetica, tahoma, verdana, geneva, lucida,]We'd be drinking good health forever[/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=arial, helvetica, tahoma, verdana, geneva, lucida,]And every drop would be a prayer.[/font][/color][/size] Are we conclude beer is a prayer because a saint said so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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