Welcome To Club Unicorn

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1339544275' post='2444102']
They may have superficially been like this but not as personally fulfilled and truley intimate because it would have been a buried secret and self loathing instead if a conscience choice to be a master of your behavior. The one partner would have had to go it alone without the love and support of family and spouse. And props for his parents as well. We aren't slaves to our urges and desires and are much more than our gender preference in sex.
[/quote]

Or the couple could decide simply to queitly accept each others preferences but still form a union to have children and a family life. It doesn't have to be a dire buried secret that destroys happiness.

I thought this an interesting article along those lines: [url="http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/israeli-rabbis-launch-initiative-to-marry-gay-men-to-lesbian-women-1.348465"]http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/israeli-rabbis-launch-initiative-to-marry-gay-men-to-lesbian-women-1.348465[/url]

[r2Dtoo]

[quote name='franciscanheart' timestamp='1339541836' post='2444080']
It's definitely true that not every gay person is going to end up like this man, nor will they want to. He addresses that in his post. What do you think about this situation, though? Touching, yes? Hopeful for some, yes? Courageous? Honorable? Logical? What do you think?
[/quote]
I think this is something most gay men would do if given the chance. I don't prescribe to this "people choose to be gay" idea that many Christians think. It's easy for heterosexual Catholics to think all gays who didn't find that special girl in high school can live celibate lives "with God's grace". Maybe some people gay and straight can do that, but certainly not all of them. People who can truthfully live a celibate life are very, very rare and it's ridiculous to assume that any random gay guy can refrain from sex.

I don't know how I feel about showing this to gay middle/high school kids. That might make them think that if they put some effort into opposite-sex relationships they can have this too. That would be a misinterpretation in my view. To me it sounds more like this couple got "love at first sight", and while that's great for them no amount of work can accomplish that. If you find that great, but if you don't you don't.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Did your penis get erect to fertilise your wife and create your children ? Than obviously you kind of like women too. Thats what i'm thinking anyway and didn't read the whole post i just stopped at the "What do you mean when you say your gay? " I can't click the link bcoz this is my brothers com. Did he have sex with his wife or where they ivf babies. And if he did than possibly the Homosexual front is a longing to belong to a group that is a minority or possibly an attempt to be charitable to the homo-sexual minortity... Thats all my opinion, an outsider that has 3 achilles heals and one of them is lust, but over time God is working with me.


JESUS iz LORD
St Paul "persistance bears fruits of hope."

Edited June 13, 2012 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye

[MissyP89]

[quote name='Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye' timestamp='1339548940' post='2444123']
Did your penis get erect to fertilise your wife and create your children ? Than obviously you kind of like women too. Thats what i'm thinking anyway and didn't read the whole post i just stopped at the "What do you mean when you say your gay? " I can't click the link bcoz this is my brothers com. Did he have sex with his wife or where they ivf babies. And if he did than possibly the Homosexual front is a longing to belong to a group that is a minority or possibly an attempt to be charitable to the homo-sexual minortity... Thats all my opinion, an outsider that has 3 achilles heals and one of them is lust, but over time God is working with me.


JESUS iz LORD
St Paul "persistance bears fruits of hope."
[/quote]

If you didn't read the story, then I really don't think that comments like these have any place in this thread.

[MissyP89]

[quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1339543029' post='2444092']
A very wonderful post. If only more people with SSA knew there was such a thing[b] as a real marriage with actual happiness[/b] for them as well. It seems people have the idea that if they aren't attracted to the person the way people normally are than they will be miserable. I'm glad someone spoke up about it.
[/quote]

You do understand that this is something that's not possible for every person, right? What this man did was unique in that the relationship with his wife blossomed organically and in a lot of ways unexpectedly. There are some people with SSA who simply aren't able to forge a connection like that with someone of the opposite sex. And that's OK. Celibate living can also lead to actual happiness. (I think you knew this, but I just wanted to make sure!)

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye' timestamp='1339548940' post='2444123']
Did your penis get erect to fertilise your wife and create your children ? Than obviously you kind of like women too. Thats what i'm thinking anyway and didn't read the whole post i just stopped at the "What do you mean when you say your gay? " I can't click the link bcoz this is my brothers com. Did he have sex with his wife or where they ivf babies. And if he did than possibly the Homosexual front is a longing to belong to a group that is a minority or possibly an attempt to be charitable to the homo-sexual minortity... Thats all my opinion, an outsider that has 3 achilles heals and one of them is lust, but over time God is working with me.


JESUS iz LORD
St Paul "persistance bears fruits of hope."
[/quote]

Since you didn't actually read it, why did you comment?

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='Slappo' timestamp='1339543350' post='2444094']
The first thing that comes to mind is I wonder how many people back in the day before "coming out" was socially ok had marriages similar to this.
[/quote]

and how many of them were miserable? I gotta say, for the one anecdote i have just read of this working out, i have heard countless more of divorce, suicide and other clearly not ideal situations, because people felt a need to do things "the normal way".

[quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1339543029' post='2444092']
A very wonderful post. If only more people with SSA knew there was such a thing as a real marriage with actual happiness for them as well. It seems people have the idea that if they aren't attracted to the person the way people normally are than they will be miserable. I'm glad someone spoke up about it.
[/quote]

As for how unlikely this is to happen to most people, consider this thought experiment. Could you imagine marrying your best male friend, kissing, having sex and raising a family, and never having sex with or dating the women you were actually attracted to? Can you imagine enjoying that?

because i know i cant. what this dude has is pretty razzle dazzle for him, but that kind of situation cannot be "made"

[TheoGrad07]

His testimony is beautiful, sensitive, touching, and pretty theologically sound (he made some distinctions that quite impressed me!). I think his discussion of what makes a truly wonderful sex life is something that can't be said enough. And I think his understanding of sex is quite good (Mormon Theology of the Body, anyone?). Another great point implied but not explicitly stated in his blog post: Arousal is not connected only to sexual orientation and attraction, so the ability to consummate one's marriage and beget children is not connected only to one's sexual orientation and attraction. (Need convincing on that last point? What about the involuntary arousal of someone being raped?)

[PhuturePriest]

[quote name='TheoGrad07' timestamp='1339552806' post='2444148']
His testimony is beautiful, sensitive, touching, and pretty theologically sound (he made some distinctions that quite impressed me!). I think his discussion of what makes a truly wonderful sex life is something that can't be said enough. And I think his understanding of sex is quite good (Mormon Theology of the Body, anyone?). Another great point implied but not explicitly stated in his blog post: Arousal is not connected only to sexual orientation and attraction, so the ability to consummate one's marriage and beget children is not connected only to one's sexual orientation and attraction. (Need convincing on that last point? What about the involuntary arousal of someone being raped?)
[/quote]

Exactly. It's not just about arousal but about pleasure. If something feels good you're going to be aroused whether you are attracted or not. However, I just about died when I wrote that, so that's all I am going to say for the subject at the moment.

[arfink]

[quote name='r2Dtoo' timestamp='1339547353' post='2444120']
I think this is something most gay men would do if given the chance. I don't prescribe to this "people choose to be gay" idea that many Christians think. It's easy for heterosexual Catholics to think all gays who didn't find that special girl in high school can live celibate lives "with God's grace". Maybe some people gay and straight can do that, but certainly not all of them. People who can truthfully live a celibate life are very, very rare and it's ridiculous to assume that any random gay guy can refrain from sex.

I don't know how I feel about showing this to gay middle/high school kids. That might make them think that if they put some effort into opposite-sex relationships they can have this too. That would be a misinterpretation in my view. To me it sounds more like this couple got "love at first sight", and while that's great for them no amount of work can accomplish that. If you find that great, but if you don't you don't.
[/quote]

It's sad that many Christians feel this way, yes. But when a Catholic says that SSA is disordered, he doesn't necessarily mean that it's that person's fault for feeling that way, nor does he insist that it's something that's curable. But chosing to act on your disordered desires is problematic, and the Church not only believes that you can master your desires with God's grace, but that you MUST do so in order to live a virtuous life.

We know of many other sins that stem from disordered desires of different kinds, and SSA/homosexuality is not different in that regard.

[r2Dtoo]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1339552743' post='2444147']
and how many of them were miserable? I gotta say, for the one anecdote i have just read of this working out, i have heard countless more of divorce, suicide and other clearly not ideal situations, because people felt a need to do things "the normal way".[/quote]
You raise several good points, but doing things the abnormal way here can lead to depression, drug use, homelessness and suicide. It's really not that easy being a GLBT youth in America. I don't know why so many think it is.



[quote]As for how unlikely this is to happen to most people, consider this thought experiment. Could you imagine marrying your best male friend, kissing, having sex and raising a family, and never having sex with or dating the women you were actually attracted to? Can you imagine enjoying that?

because i know i cant. what this dude has is pretty razzle dazzle for him, but that kind of situation cannot be "made"
[/quote]
There is a difference between being friends and "love at first sight".

[r2Dtoo]

[quote name='arfink' timestamp='1339554239' post='2444165']
It's sad that many Christians feel this way, yes. But when a Catholic says that SSA is disordered, he doesn't necessarily mean that it's that person's fault for feeling that way, nor does he insist that it's something that's curable. But chosing to act on your disordered desires is problematic, and the Church not only believes that you can master your desires with God's grace, but that you MUST do so in order to live a virtuous life.

We know of many other sins that stem from disordered desires of different kinds, and SSA/homosexuality is not different in that regard.
[/quote]
Expecting that persons who cannot live celibate lives to refrain from sex is not only asking them to perform an impossible task, but putting them at risk of suicide if actually attempted.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='r2Dtoo' timestamp='1339554340' post='2444166']
You raise several good points, but doing things the abnormal way here can lead to depression, drug use, homelessness and suicide. It's really not that easy being a GLBT youth in America. I don't know why so many think it is.
[/quote]

Why do you assume its "abnormal" to make a conscious decision to live as a married couple to raise a family? We are not slaves to our passions, as if we have no control of our genitals.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='r2Dtoo' timestamp='1339555981' post='2444177']
Expecting that persons who cannot live celibate lives to refrain from sex is not only asking them to perform an impossible task, but putting them at risk of suicide if actually attempted.
[/quote]
Seriously you will not die from lack of sex, but you could die from lack of relationships, they are not the same thing, please do not confuse the two.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='r2Dtoo' timestamp='1339555981' post='2444177']
Expecting that persons who cannot live celibate lives to refrain from sex is not only asking them to perform an impossible task, but putting them at risk of suicide if actually attempted.
[/quote]Can you cite a study that ugly people die sooner or commit suicide at a greater rate than the pretty people? Or are you saying that social mores should not have any expectation of maturity, self-control, self-discipline, or any resistance to our basest instincts and urges?