I Am In Need Of Advice

[Lil'Monster]

Sup fellow discerners, nuns, priests, and the like!


I need advice...I really do!


Anyway today I was texting my Protestant friend and it was just a regular convo about her younger sister's graduation party, etc. Then the convo became a little more serious! But I had to cut it short cuz I had to work at home.

So here is the convo:

Her: "So I saw on fb that you were thinking about being a nun"

Me: "Yeah..long story but yep its true..."

Her: "Well what made you want to do that?"

Me: "Jesus...he has a way...I want to love him more."

Her: "But how does being a nun make you love him even more than you do now?"

Me: "Well everyone has a vocation. Marriage, religious life (nuns, priests), and single. God wants us to be happy, etc. It's kinda hard to explain though. When I was on a retreat..I heard this voice in my heart teeling me not to worry. It was so beautiful. You know I asked myself that question a lot..I need 2 pray and wait. Remember the rich guy came up to Jesus and he told him to sell everything? but he went away sad...that doesn't mean to sell everything..just surrender everything to the Lord. I am so bad at explaining."

Her: "So was he telling you that you should be a nun or that he was gonna provide you a man in His timing? Well yes we should surrender our lives to let God use us but I am not sure that being a nun is the way to do that. Because I have surrendered my life for God to use and I am not a nun. Because if you are a nun you cant ever get married. I dont think I was made to be single all my life. Some ppl aren't. Are you?"


Then I told her that I had to work and we could talk on facebook later on. But she sent me a message saying that she doesn't have internet at her home but she will catch me later on Monday.


Anyways I kept on praying "Come, Holy Spirit! Give me your wisdom, etc" I felt so bad that I couldn't give her the right answers and also texting costs me too.


So what you guys think? I need advice....I don't know what to say to her....Got any advice for me? Will you also pray for me too. Thank you guys!

[Joan Marie Wandel]

Wow that's a difficult one its hard when people don't understand

[cmaD2006]

Remember that your friend is protestant and may not understand the concept of vocation very well (I could be selling her short though).

Honestly? I'm going to say what a religious sister/friend of mine said to me about my own personal situation right now. I don't mean to sound harsh, but, it is really none of her business, and you don't have to justify your discernment.

Having said that -- you could simply say "Well, I'm still discerning. Could you keep me in your prayers that I might follow God's will?" And just leave it at that.

I have a lot of times done things with respect to my vocation very publicly. And other times (like now) have kept it very private. It is your choice on how public to make it, but be aware that making it public opens yourself up to such questioning. I know I *still* get questioned on "oh -- you're not a nun? What happened, it didn't work out?" by people who barely know me. I keep it simple, don't give many details (unless the person knows me well, in which case they probably have the details already) and move on.

Hope this helps,

[savvy]

Lil Mon,

Since you are only discerning and not completely sure, I would not go around making this public, esp. not on facebook. Only my really close friends and some family know that I am seriously discerning.


If someone would ask me, I would say, that this is where I see myself totally happy and at peace. I know nothing else will fulfill me. Some people are called to find someone nice to get married too. Some people are called to marry Jesus. I would also tell them that if they do not understand that is totally fine.

[mantellata]

1. Would you agree that sometimes God asks people to do something in particular for Him - that He is an active participant in our lives and not just a spectator?

2. Would you agree that His plans for us, no matter how foolish they may sound - like talking to a burning bush, not cutting your hair to preserve your strength, or leaving your fishing nets behind (including family) - are all for our ultimate happiness and His greater glory?

3. Would you also agree that such "unique" calls do not mean that others are less special in God's eyes or love Him less - but nevertheless if the Lord commands one ought to follow?

Hopefully she would agree to all these.

4. And doesn't scripture say that Peter told our Savior that "we have left everything to follow you" and Jesus replied "Amen I say to you, every one that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall possess life everlasting."

5. So it stands to reason that Peter left behind his family and his wife (we know he was married) to follow Jesus.....

6. Well I have heard what I believe is the call of my God - but I don't want to jump too quickly because His voice is not in the fire or the earthquake or the wind but in a still small voice I don't want to be mistaken - but if He is asking me to follow Him in a radical way - in a way that seems foolish to men, I want rise up quickly and say like Samuel "here I am Lord". I'm not saying it is for everybody - I'm not saying that holiness can not be found in a way that includes a Godly husband - just that it seems that the Lord might be calling me to live with the undivided heart that Paul speaks of. So I'm praying and trying to better discern the Spirit's voice.



Might that be helpful?

Edited June 8, 2012 by mantellata

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='cmariadiaz' timestamp='1339196146' post='2442727']
Remember that your friend is protestant and may not understand the concept of vocation very well (I could be selling her short though).

Honestly? I'm going to say what a religious sister/friend of mine said to me about my own personal situation right now. I don't mean to sound harsh, but, it is really none of her business, and you don't have to justify your discernment.

Having said that -- you could simply say "Well, I'm still discerning. Could you keep me in your prayers that I might follow God's will?" And just leave it at that.

I have a lot of times done things with respect to my vocation very publicly. And other times (like now) have kept it very private. It is your choice on how public to make it, but be aware that making it public opens yourself up to such questioning. I know I *still* get questioned on "oh -- you're not a nun? What happened, it didn't work out?" by people who barely know me. I keep it simple, don't give many details (unless the person knows me well, in which case they probably have the details already) and move on.

Hope this helps,
[/quote]

^^^this^^^

I don't feel it necessary to broadcast my discernment anymore. I used to blab to everyone which order I was going to join and when I was going to enter. Truth is, a lot of opinions drown out God's voice. You are a baby in discernment, LM, so I would be cautious, especially when it comes to Protestant friends. They may mean well, but they don't understand the concept of a Catholic vocation because they weren't taught that becoming a religious or priest was a vocation. If you can't explain it, just do the best you can and then let it go. She may never understand and that's OK. Only you need to know what your vocation is.

[Lil'Monster]

Yeah....I know I am a discernment baby....still I don't want to say anything foolish that would go against Jesus and his Church.


I agree with all the advices here. I know I shouldn't blabbled my mouth....I mean by my fingers...over facebook....but I am not ashamed....You realize I have been kinda discerning on and off about less than a year...but I have been seriously discerning since the May Retreat.

I have a problem..when people don't understand about Jesus, Mary, and everything Catholic.....I get fired up..so fired up that I lose my temper or I would sobbed....But I have been working on it.

Yeah this girl is Southern Baptist..she would probably never understand.

Actually I think I needed this happened to me because it made me stronger...usually things like this make me more stronger than I usually am. I just don't want to lose my temper....Oh boy do I have a short temper....Just ask my parents and they will tell you about it..


All I wanted to hear (or texted) from her was "razzle dazzle! I am so proud and happy that you are being opened to God's will! I don't understand what it means to be a nun or discerning religious life. But you can tell me about it if you would like to."

Or something like that..sigh

[Spem in alium]

I agree with what has been said above. You do not need to justify the nature and depth of your calling, the truth of your vocation or yourself to anyone - only to God. Any kind of vocational or life choice is very serious and personal, so don't feel that you need to make such things public beyond what is necessary.

Know that you will be in my prayers. In my view, if you have a true vocation and you find yourself needing to explain things, the best thing you can say is what lies in your heart.

May the Lord bless you always.

[Antigonos]

[quote name='cmariadiaz' timestamp='1339196146' post='2442727']
Remember that your friend is protestant and may not understand the concept of vocation very well (I could be selling her short though).

[/quote]

Being neither Catholic nor Protestant, I think the misunderstanding is more about the seeming dichotomy of "either" [vocation], "or" [marriage] as the only pathways to being a devout practicing person. For example, there are plenty of Torah-observant Jews in the world who live entirely in the world; indeed, we don't have the option of retiring from it. True, prior to the 20th century there were very, very few unmarried Jewish women, but that was not so much about keeping the Commandments as marriage being necessary for a woman to have the necessary protection from predators [women in general, except for the extremely wealthy or widowed, were regarded legally as needing a male protector, and passed directly from father to husband. In 19th century England, for example, women not only didn't have the vote, they could not dispose of their own property, or be witnesses in court without the consent of their "guardian"].

In Judaism, the exemption of women from performing those religious tasks which must be performed at a particular time has often been thought to be demeaning, but how could a pious woman correlate her religious duties with a screaming infant or, if she was a nurse, with her patient's urgent needs, unless she had that permission? Indeed, she is encouraged to "make up" her missed prayers, etc and there isn't any prohibition against taking up a "man's responsibilities" if she can. There are, in fact, certain areas of Jewish Law which ONLY a woman can perform, and as I've mentioned before, for us, actions ARE worship and a form of prayer, in every day of daily life. The concept that one has to remove oneself [in any sense] from the commonality of human existence in order to "love God" to the fullest is alien to us.

I was interested to read that at Our Lady of the Rock, some of the guests at the monastery were Jewish. There are times when I'd give just about everything to take a stack of spiritual reading and retire to a cabin in the woods for a week or more! The Sabbath, " an island in time", for Jewish women is still a very busy time, alas.

[mantellata]

The "single life" that is a life dedicated to God - even if it is not specifically consecrated by the Church - can indeed be a path to holiness. As Catholics, we seek to apply the sacraments and sacramentals whenever we can because we realize that we need God's grace to remain faithful. I think most young Catholics do not "discern" single life because we are already single. So we know what that is like.

Religious life comes out of a historical context of consecrated single women -- consecrated Virgins. Christ spoke of eunuchs for the sake of the Kingdom - and Paul advocated a chaste life like his own in order to have an undivided heart for the Lord. Much like what you mentioned for a Jewish woman who isn't demeaned by her motherhood by not being required to make pilgrimages at specific times so to does Paul mention that there is nothing bad about a "divided" heart -- which as you mentioned (and St. Paul mentions) if a mother has a screaming infant, her attention is divided between her children and her husband. This [u]is[/u] a great and good path to holiness. Okay - back to historical context because I'm being overly tangential this morning -- you mentioned Antigonos, that you would give anything to take a stack of spiritual reading and retire to a cabin in the woods -- well the consecrated Virgins of Paul's time, who elected to remain single for the Lord, saw the value in a life dedicated entirely to the reading of the Scriptures and to prayers. With martyrdom no longer a possibility after the peace of Constantine, they decided to live a "white martyrdom of love" in the desert. These lived like hermits - likely taking the prophet Elijah as one of their many guides - but soon realized that when you live by yourself - it is easy to convince yourself that you are becoming holy (that is, growing in charity) when really the heart is still full of discord. So these Christian hermits / Virgins for the Lord, banded together, elected a wise leader, and then, in order to rid the self of all selfish will, submitted their lives to these Abbots and Abbesses. Only after this did the Church officially consecrate this way of life. (It was consecrated Virginity - single life - that was the immediate predecessor of our Lord Jesus - and in imitation of Him).

So - women discerning religious life today - are first actually answering a call to be single - single hearted for God alone. Secondarily (though the two end up conflating practically speaking) a woman tries to find a "band of brethren" (religious community) in which she can live out this single hearted love with support, wisdom, and security. The first is (in my mind) the call [i]per se[/i] and the second is one of more practical consideration. This doesn't mean that in prayer someone believes God is calling them to [i][u]this[/u][/i] particular community.

Edited June 9, 2012 by mantellata

[Antigonos]

Quite true, Mantellata, but since the first commandment given to Man is "be fruitful and multiply" [Genesis 8:16-18 -- actually, it was given before, but at that time God had not yet created human beings], there is, for Jews, a dilemma about the single life. Just as we put no particular value on perpetual virginity, willfully not procreating [most rabbis claim "be fruitful" means one child of each sex, and "multiply" means one more] is a sin. Judaism has several categories of describing girls/young women which got lost in the Greek translation so the Church made distinctions which are meaningless for us [only the priestly caste MUST marry virgins; however, if a man marries a woman he has been told is a virgin, and discovers she is not, he is entitled to divorce her, and keep her dowry.

Enough digression. The table off which a Jewish family eats is referred to as a "Temple in miniature" and so much of Jewish practice is family-oriented that the single Jew usually finds him/herself rather outside things. It is said that God created the world in 6 days, and ever since then has been arranging shidduchim ["matches", i.e. marriages]

Contrariwise, there is the story of the man who went to his rabbi and demanded the rabbi write for him a Bill of Divorcement. "Don't you know," the rabbi said, "that when a couple divorces the very angels in Heaven weep?"

"Let them," replied the unhappy husband, "I want to rejoice".

[Antigonos]

[quote name='Antigonos' timestamp='1339245983' post='2442881']
Quite true, Mantellata, but since the first commandment given to Man is "be fruitful and multiply" [Genesis 8:16-18 -- actually, it was given before, but at that time God had not yet created human beings], there is, for Jews, a dilemma about the single life. Just as we put no particular value on perpetual virginity, willfully not procreating [most rabbis claim "be fruitful" means one child of each sex, and "multiply" means one more] is a sin. [/quote]

An additional fact occurred to me, after hitting "Post". The Torah permits a kind of vow, usually referred to as the Nazirite vow, whereby a man [not a woman, btw] can swear off a number of activities for a specific period of time [not perpetually]. These include not drinking wine, letting one's hair grow, and having nothing to do with women. At the completion of the term of his vow, he had to go to the Temple, and give a [b][i]sin offering [/i][/b]to atone for not having lived a normal life, particularly not marrying. After the destruction of the Temple, this form of religious life died out; the Sages of the Talmudic period did not approve of it.

BTW, the modern Hebrew for "monk" is nazir; a nun is "nazira"; a monastery or convent is a "minzar" from the root n-z-r, or "Nazir".

[Useless factoid of the day]

[Annie12]

[quote name='Lil'Monster' timestamp='1339195234' post='2442722']
Sup fellow discerners, nuns, priests, and the like!


I need advice...I really do!


Anyway today I was texting my Protestant friend and it was just a regular convo about her younger sister's graduation party, etc. Then the convo became a little more serious! But I had to cut it short cuz I had to work at home.

So here is the convo:

Her: "So I saw on fb that you were thinking about being a nun"

Me: "Yeah..long story but yep its true..."

Her: "Well what made you want to do that?"

Me: "Jesus...he has a way...I want to love him more."

Her: "But how does being a nun make you love him even more than you do now?"

Me: "Well everyone has a vocation. Marriage, religious life (nuns, priests), and single. God wants us to be happy, etc. It's kinda hard to explain though. When I was on a retreat..I heard this voice in my heart teeling me not to worry. It was so beautiful. You know I asked myself that question a lot..I need 2 pray and wait. Remember the rich guy came up to Jesus and he told him to sell everything? but he went away sad...that doesn't mean to sell everything..just surrender everything to the Lord. I am so bad at explaining."

Her: "So was he telling you that you should be a nun or that he was gonna provide you a man in His timing? Well yes we should surrender our lives to let God use us but I am not sure that being a nun is the way to do that. Because I have surrendered my life for God to use and I am not a nun. Because if you are a nun you cant ever get married. I dont think I was made to be single all my life. Some ppl aren't. Are you?"


Then I told her that I had to work and we could talk on facebook later on. But she sent me a message saying that she doesn't have internet at her home but she will catch me later on Monday.


Anyways I kept on praying "Come, Holy Spirit! Give me your wisdom, etc" I felt so bad that I couldn't give her the right answers and also texting costs me too.


So what you guys think? I need advice....I don't know what to say to her....Got any advice for me? Will you also pray for me too. Thank you guys!
[/quote]

Tell her you will look into her questions and get back to her. Either that or just don't discuss it with her anymore.

[savvy]

[quote]The table off which a Jewish family eats is referred to as a "Temple in miniature" and so much of Jewish practice is family-oriented that the single Jew usually finds him/herself rather outside things. It is said that God created the world in 6 days, and ever since then has been arranging shidduchim ["matches", i.e. marriages][/quote]

This is interesting Antigonos. I have always felt more at home at convents, with a few exceptions than with my own family. Strange, but true. There is nothing wrong with my family. It's just that convents make me happier

[PhuturePriest]

I wish my excellence had the opportunity to give you my thoughts on the matter, but it seems you have been given satisfactory answers, so I will take a small break until the next person asks for advice.

Until next time.

Edited June 9, 2012 by FuturePriest387