kujo Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 [quote name='Amory' timestamp='1339183158' post='2442628'] I was simply pointing out that there are real, "modern" countries in 2012 where the Church has an important role in public life (in the case of Malta, an official constitutional role). Nobody is calling for the repeal of the Establishment Clause, I'm simply noting that greater religious influence in society is not some retrograde fantasy for those unable to get acclimated to the present. [/quote] Well, I dunno much about Malta, but I'll bet that they're a pretty homogeneous society, particularly in terms of religion. Thus, they can all, or mostly all, agree on religious matters. The U.S. ain't homogeneous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amory Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1339183312' post='2442630'] Well, I dunno much about Malta, but I'll bet that they're a pretty homogeneous society, particularly in terms of religion. Thus, they can all, or mostly all, agree on religious matters. The U.S. ain't homogeneous. [/quote] The United States as a whole isn't homogeneous, but many individual states certainly are. Given the constitutionally limited role of the federal government, most religious influence--de iure or de facto--would (and, to a certain degree, does) take place on the state level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r2Dtoo Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Amory' timestamp='1339183511' post='2442632'] The United States as a whole isn't homogeneous, but many individual states certainly are. Given the constitutionally limited role of the federal government, most religious influence--de iure or de facto--would (and, to a certain degree, does) take place on the state level. [/quote] If you're talking about values and government, yes you are correct. I've noticed that here in VA, believe it or not. Are you saying you want individual states to start having "official religions"? Edited June 8, 2012 by r2Dtoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 [quote name='Amory' timestamp='1339183158' post='2442628'] I was simply pointing out that there are real, "modern" countries in 2012 where the Church has an important role in public life (in the case of Malta, an official constitutional role). Nobody is calling for the repeal of the Establishment Clause, I'm simply noting that greater religious influence in society is not some retrograde fantasy for those unable to get acclimated to the present. [/quote]Just curious, how did it work out when the Church had an important role in the public life of Spain, Portugal, France, Ireland, New World Colonies, etc.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amory Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 [quote name='r2Dtoo' timestamp='1339183623' post='2442634'] If you're talking about values and government, yes you are correct. I've noticed that here in VA, believe it or not. Are you saying you want individual states to start having "official religions"? [/quote] That wouldn't be possible due to the incorporation doctrine. What I'm advocating is for states to make laws--as some already do--based on religious ideals. Blue laws are one example of this already present in many states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r2Dtoo Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Blue laws? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amory Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 [quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1339183761' post='2442636'] Just curious, how did it work out when the Church had an important role in the public life of Spain, Portugal, France, Ireland, New World Colonies, etc.? [/quote] It worked out pretty well, actually. The Catholic Church was the established religion in both Spain and Portugal for longer than the United States has been in existence, and both were leading world powers during the period of establishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r2Dtoo Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Amory' timestamp='1339184251' post='2442644'] It worked out pretty well, actually. The Catholic Church was the established religion in both Spain and Portugal for longer than the United States has been in existence, and both were leading world powers during the period of establishment. [/quote] While raping and enslaving Mexico and South America, yes. EDIT: And the leading super-power of the time was the Protestant infested UK. Edited June 8, 2012 by r2Dtoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amory Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 [quote name='r2Dtoo' timestamp='1339184177' post='2442642'] Blue laws? [/quote] I was referring to laws that restrict business on Sundays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r2Dtoo Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) Yes, America will become a prosperous country only when her states ban gas stations from selling beer before noon on Sundays. Edited June 8, 2012 by r2Dtoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 [quote name='Amory' timestamp='1339184251' post='2442644'] It worked out pretty well, actually. The Catholic Church was the established religion in both Spain and Portugal for longer than the United States has been in existence, and both were leading world powers during the period of establishment. [/quote]Not what I meant. The Church is no longer plays as an important role in public life. Not saying they shouldn't have a voice, but the Church shouldn't have a position of civil athority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amory Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 [quote name='r2Dtoo' timestamp='1339184326' post='2442645'] While raping and enslaving Mexico and South America, yes.[/quote] While acknowledging that there were certainly abuses, I would not consider the conquest of the Americas itself a bad thing. The United States itself, in pursuit of a good cause (the end of WWII), found itself committing atrocities (at Hiroshima and Nagasaki). [quote name='r2Dtoo' timestamp='1339184326' post='2442645'] EDIT: And the leading super-power of the time was the Protestant infested UK. [/quote] [size=4]Not until 1588. And, of course, England (the kingdom wasn't united until [color=#000000][font=sans-serif]1707) was a confessional state, which confirms my point. [/font][/color][/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r2Dtoo Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 [quote name='Amory' timestamp='1339184779' post='2442651'] While acknowledging that there were certainly abuses, I would not consider the conquest of the Americas itself a bad thing. The United States itself, in pursuit of a good cause (the end of WWII), found itself committing atrocities (at Hiroshima and Nagasaki).[/quote] When America tells you to surrender, don't make America have to tell you twice. Sorry. Oh, and I never said the discovery of the Americas was a bad thing, but the Catholic colonial powers were all horrendous. I'm glad I'm not from a country that had them as part of their history. They're all third world now. [size=4][quote]Not until 1588. And, of course, England (the kingdom wasn't united until [color=#000000][font=sans-serif]1707) was a confessional state, which confirms my point.[/quote][/font][/color][/size] [size=4][color=#000000][font=sans-serif]Um, America is the most mightiest power the world has ever seen. I don't think we need to be a confessional state, which apparently is just not allowing gas stations to sell beer before noon on Sundays, to be a superpower.[/font][/color][/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardillacid Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 [quote name='r2Dtoo' timestamp='1339185246' post='2442656'] When America tells you to surrender, don't make America have to tell you twice. Sorry. Oh, and I never said the discovery of the Americas was a bad thing, but the Catholic colonial powers were all horrendous. I'm glad I'm not from a country that had them as part of their history. They're all third world now. [size=4][/font][/color][/size] [size=4][color=#000000][font=sans-serif]Um, America is the most mightiest power the world has ever seen. I don't think we need to be a confessional state, which apparently is just not allowing gas stations to sell beer before noon on Sundays, to be a superpower.[/font][/color][/size] [/quote]Did you get dropped on your head a frequently as a baby?[quote name='r2Dtoo' timestamp='1339161815' post='2442493'] You wouldn't have guessed that was a logical fallacy with you people. The way everyone here carries on it's like yall believe it'll be the end of the world if two men or two women ever get to say "I do". [/quote]Keep heaping them on! You're winning! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardillacid Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 You know, obvious trolls are a dime a dozen on the internet. Maybe you would be more at home talking trash with 10 year olds on XBox live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now