Church In Minnisota Bravely Fights For Liberty

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='ardillacid' timestamp='1339117496' post='2442357']
...
[/quote]

You couldn't say that before the gym?

[4588686]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1339117118' post='2442353']
what's the hypocrisy ? The bishops think this is a priority and the people belong to the organization that have bishops in charge.
[/quote]

The Bishops have been screaming about the contraception mandate. They are interested in this only because of ts impact on the church. They have, however, been pretending that they are making some principled stand for liberal democracy in general and religious liberty in particular. Which makes this somewhat hypocritical as they are obviously not concerned with protecting the integrity of our liberal democracy and there was no principle in their stand, which was entirely self-interested. The are not campaigning to protect the rights of the Church to not recognize gay marriages. They are fighting to curb the freedom of individuals who have no desire to live within the bounds of a Catholic marriage.

[quote name='ardillacid' timestamp='1339117496' post='2442357']
...
[/quote]

The rights of gay citizens to enjoy equal protection under the law, as guaranteed by the 14th Amendment.

Edited June 8, 2012 by Hasan

[ardillacid]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' timestamp='1339117919' post='2442361']
You couldn't say that before the gym?
[/quote]How does one pronounce an ellipsis?

[ardillacid]

It's okay, I'm used to being blown off by Hasan #phatmassmeetup #BOOM #LOL

[4588686]

[quote name='ardillacid' timestamp='1339121414' post='2442381']
It's okay, [b]I'm used to being blown off by Hasan[/b] #phatmassmeetup #BOOM #LOL
[/quote]


Stop trying to ensnare me into making a banable joke.

[ardillacid]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1339121554' post='2442383']
Stop trying to ensnare me into making a banable joke.
[/quote]You're on top of your game today

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1339118894' post='2442371']
The rights of gay citizens to enjoy equal protection under the law, as guaranteed by the 14th Amendment.
[/quote]What protection are they not afforded?

[4588686]

[quote name='ardillacid' timestamp='1339122857' post='2442397']
You're on top of your game today [/QUOTE]

You know, people keep giving my lip about what I did, but it was outside of my control. And it really is hypocritical. From what I hear, dUSt blows people off all the time. And he doesn't just blow off friends, either. He'll blow off perfect strangers. He'll blow them off and then be on his way without a second thought. A very inconsiderate man.

[QUOTE]What protection are they not afforded?
[/quote]

The same protections that inter-racial couples were not afforded.

[r2Dtoo]

[quote name='ardillacid' timestamp='1339122857' post='2442397']What protection are they not afforded?[/quote]
Gay marriage is about getting equal recognition for homosexuals. There's really not a whole lot more to it than that. If you think that this somehow means gays are going to be stormtrooping into your living room, ripping your rosary out of your hands, and forcing you to swear allegiance to Satan thats your problem.

As for the 14th Amendment argument, I think I see where Hasan is coming from, but the Supreme Court is never going to interpret to it that liberally. This is basically a states rights issues and always will be.

Edited June 8, 2012 by r2Dtoo

[Amory]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1339118894' post='2442371']
The Bishops have been screaming about the contraception mandate. They are interested in this only because of ts impact on the church. They have, however, been pretending that they are making some principled stand for liberal democracy in general and religious liberty in particular. Which makes this somewhat hypocritical as they are obviously not concerned with protecting the integrity of our liberal democracy and there was no principle in their stand, which was entirely self-interested. The are not campaigning to protect the rights of the Church to not recognize gay marriages. They are fighting to curb the freedom of individuals who have no desire to live within the bounds of a Catholic marriage.The rights of gay citizens to enjoy equal protection under the law, as guaranteed by the 14th Amendment.
[/quote]

The bishops aren't being hypocritical; they're being practical--Machiavellian even (and I use that word with a positive connotation).

Considering that most Americans are not Catholic, if the bishops want to persuade anyone besides their subjects (or to have any meaningful say in public discourse), they have to appeal to an authority that all Americans (or at least all Americans involved in public discourse) agree upon, namely the Constitution. Fortunately, the United States Constitution, both in theory and in practice, has given strong protections to the free exercise of religion, especially when compared to other rights (or, as the case may be, "rights") throughout the country's history. It is thus rather easy--not to mention compelling--for the Church in the United States to appeal to its First Amendment right to free exercise when it finds its ability to exercise its teachings compromised by a federal mandate.

One doesn't have to believe that the constitutional right to free exercise is also a divine right to free exercise (nor does one need to accept that the United States Constitution is an ideal system of government), in order to appeal successfully to the Constitution in matters of public policy.

[ardillacid]

[quote name='r2Dtoo' timestamp='1339124407' post='2442410']
If you think that this somehow means gays are going to be stormtrooping into your living room, ripping your rosary out of your hands, and forcing you to swear allegiance to Satan thats your problem.
[/quote]Do you realize the point of debating has nothing to do with logical fallacies?

[ardillacid]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1339123467' post='2442401']
The same protections that inter-racial couples were not afforded.
[/quote]Would you care to specifically enumerate what protections gays are lacking?

[r2Dtoo]

[quote name='Amory' timestamp='1339132581' post='2442443']
The bishops aren't being hypocritical; they're being practical--Machiavellian even (and I use that word with a positive connotation).

Considering that most Americans are not Catholic, if the bishops want to persuade anyone besides their subjects (or to have any meaningful say in public discourse), they have to appeal to an authority that all Americans (or at least all Americans involved in public discourse) agree upon, namely the Constitution. Fortunately, the United States Constitution, both in theory and in practice, has given strong protections to the free exercise of religion, especially when compared to other rights (or, as the case may be, "rights") throughout the country's history. It is thus rather easy--not to mention compelling--for the Church in the United States to appeal to its First Amendment right to free exercise when it finds its ability to exercise its teachings compromised by a federal mandate.

One doesn't have to believe that the constitutional right to free exercise is also a divine right to free exercise (nor does one need to accept that the United States Constitution is an ideal system of government), in order to appeal successfully to the Constitution in matters of public policy.
[/quote]
And this has to do with opposing gay marriage, how?

[r2Dtoo]

[quote name='ardillacid' timestamp='1339153769' post='2442476']
Do you realize the point of debating has nothing to do with logical fallacies?
[/quote]
You wouldn't have guessed that was a logical fallacy with you people. The way everyone here carries on it's like yall believe it'll be the end of the world if two men or two women ever get to say "I do".

[Amory]

[quote name='r2Dtoo' timestamp='1339161725' post='2442492']
And this has to do with opposing gay marriage, how?
[/quote]

It didn't have much to do with gay "marriage." However, the thread wasn't just about that topic, was it? I believe it also concerned the bishops' current fight for religious liberty.

[Amory]

Of course, both have to do with the bishops' attempts to make society more Catholic--or really, to prevent society from becoming less Catholic. If I were the bishops, I would use all the political maneuvers I could to prevent a decrease in the Catholicity of society, with no concern for the values of "liberal democracy," except when I could use appeals to those values to further my arguments.