Poll On The Eucharist. Particles Is The Focus.

[stevil]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' timestamp='1341645277' post='2453067']
Whether the effect of the Eucharist is in my mind or not is really irrelevant the end result is the same, because of faith.
[/quote]
OK, that's fine, its your choice. Whether it is real or imagined is irrelevant for you, you gain life (energy) to do Christ's work, so there is real value in it for you. I can respect that.

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' timestamp='1341645277' post='2453067']
However there are many things science cannot prove
[/quote]
This is true, somethings science hasn't proven yet, and some things science will never prove.

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' timestamp='1341645277' post='2453067']
...and without men of vision who were prepared to see beyond the horizon and propose theory only based on faith many other great scientific discoveries would not have been realised.
[/quote]
Agreed, also many hypothesis or imagined ideas have lead to scientists creating experiments and later proving that the predicted events are true via verified observations thus promoting the hypothesis to become accepted theory. But we need to acknowledge that the majority of hypothesis are proven false. This is the way science works, it fiddlers out the false ideas and carries on the path of knowledge based on the falsifiable theories that have been proven to be reasonably accurate. I could only imagine what scientific theory would look like if they didn't have the opportunity to verify or correct their thoughts with measured observations.

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' timestamp='1341645277' post='2453067']
When I read the New Testament of the story Of Jesus, I see that there is so much sense and wisdom in what he taught that I have to believe it was real. I've never read a fictional story that comes close. Even if one doesn't believe in the supernatural aspect, if everyone lived by his teachings what a much better place the world would be.
[/quote]
I could pull out quotes from the New Testament which show Jesus to offer advice which is contrary to the necessities of life. A person following the advice would no doubt die young. All though of course I am not a bible scholar, have not studied it and have not had the Catholic church telling me how to interpret it.

Edited July 7, 2012 by stevil

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='stevil' timestamp='1341693978' post='2453187']
I could pull out quotes from the New Testament which show Jesus to offer advice which is contrary to the necessities of life. A person following the advice would no doubt die young. All though of course I am not a bible scholar, have not studied it and have not had the Catholic church telling me how to interpret it.
[/quote]
Agreed many scriptures are hard to comprehend. Years ago I decided that I would do some reading of the Bible and so I opened it anywhere and began to read about the brides waiting for the bridegroom. What? What a lot of nonsense endorsing polygamy and as if the females are inferior to the male. I gave up and closed the Bible. My error was that I didn't understand what I was reading. The method of writing in parables and what's more my objective was maybe somewhat off. I was testing the Bibles sense! People claim that as the word of God, it is infallible. But then how do we explain the apparent contradictions and difficult if not impossible to understand readings. A test maybe? God wants us to read and learn only if we have the correct attitude. Or maybe he wants to see how WE will interpret. Will we do it with generous leniency or hardness of heart which many seem to love to do?
Lets look at a contradiction.

[i]Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, [u]unless a man be born again[/u] of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. [[url="http://drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=50&ch=3&l=5#x"]John 3:5[/url]][/i]
The underlined in the DR Bible quotes this to mean. [i]By these words our Saviour hath declared the necessity of baptism; and by the word water it is evident that the application of it is necessary with the words[/i]

yet in going back a bit [i]John 3:3 Jesus answered, and said to him: Amen, amen I say to thee, [b]unless a man be born again[/b], he cannot see the kingdom of God. [url="http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=50&ch=3&l=4#x"][4][/url] Nicodemus saith to him: How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter a second time into his mother's womb, and be born again?[/i][i] Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be [u]born again[/u] [/i][u]of[/u][i] water and [u]the Holy Ghost[/u], he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. [[url="http://drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=50&ch=3&l=5#x"]John 3:5[/url]][/i]
It seems to be saying that the baptism that is vital is the baptism by the spirit and that this is what the again is referring too. After all salvation is spiritual and so must be baptism. The story of A&E ref. 'The creation museum' thread and the belief of evolution as the method of creation seems unlikely in an earthly world. But then Adam and Eve were immortal beings prior to the fall. They were in Eden not earth. After the fall mankind was cast out of Eden and kept from the tree of life (Aging?) he inherited death. To die one must first be born as a mortal and thus in order to be redeemed we must first be born into the earthly world through water in the womb. The sacrament of baptism of water is a renewal of this first baptism. Then we most importantly must be born again of the Holy Spirit. In the conversation with the lawmaker (Luke 10:25) Jesus confirmed that if a person loves God and loves their neighbour then they shall have fulfilled the requirement of attaining eternal life. No mention of the baptism of water. If a person lives a life in following the spirit of Jesus then they will have loved him and their neighbour and thus will be baptised through his Church and the Holy Spirit will be in them. Undoubtedly I may hear cries of heresy against what I have written, but I am not declaring that what I have proposed is correct or complete. Only that it is a possible explanation for this contradiction between the necessity of baptism and the requirement for eternal life. Some things in the Bible may never be fully understood, but are possibly there to give us food for thought. The best way to learn these things is in membership of the Church that Jesus began with his ministry.
[i][[url="http://drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=47&ch=28&l=19#x"]Matthew 28:19[/url]] Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. [url="http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=47&ch=28&l=20#x"][20][/url] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world. [/i]

Edited July 8, 2012 by Mark of the Cross

[sixpence]

Can someone please restate the question at hand?

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='sixpence' timestamp='1341952512' post='2454447']
Can someone please restate the question at hand?
[/quote]
The Op doesn't seem to be around anymore And I don't think anyone else understands just what the question was. So in the spirit of the thread we're waffling