College, A Thing Of The Past ?

[Papist]

[quote]
[b]Merit Badges for the Job Market[/b] by Jeffery R Young
Borrowing from the Boy Scouts, colleges and companies are experimenting with alternatives to diplomas


What if employers didn't care whether applicants held a college diploma but instead asked what educational "badges" they had collected? Like Boy Scout merit badges for professionals, these marks of achievement would show competence in specific skills, and they could be granted by any number of institutions.

This is the vision of a growing number of education reformers who feel that the standard certification system no longer works in today's fast-changing job market. The Mozilla Foundation, the group that develops the popular Firefox Web browser, is designing a framework to let anyone with a Web page—colleges, companies, even individuals—issue forgery-proof digital badges that will give potential employers details about an applicant's training at the click of a mouse. In September, the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation announced a $2 million grant program, run in coordination with Mozilla, to encourage organizations to try the badge system. More than 300 groups have applied.

Even elite universities are experimenting with the approach. Last month the Massachusetts Institute of Technology announced plans to issue badges to students who complete a new set of free online courses, as part of a self-learning project called MITx. (University officials call them certificates instead of badges.) MIT would charge a "modest fee" for the new credentials, but the price will surely be a bargain compared to the school's annual tuition, which tops $40,000.

Such unorthodox notions are getting a serious hearing as more observers point to problems in American higher education. Tuition is rising far faster than family incomes, employers argue that graduates don't show up ready for today's jobs, and academic disciplines seem increasingly insular.

Peter Thiel, a founder of PayPal, was one of the first to use the word "bubble" to describe the current higher-education market. Last year he became a lightning rod for debate when he announced a scholarship that pays selected students $100,000 not to go to college. He challenged each recipient to start a company instead of sitting in a lecture hall.

Mr. Thiel himself boasts degrees from Stanford University and its law school. But that was 20-odd years ago, the ice age of computer history. Today, the Internet provides universal access to books and lectures and a fluid social network that lets any 19-year-old with an idea find rich investors or flash a resume to potential employers.

Consider an upstart called P2P University. The name stands for peer-to-peer university, and anyone can be a student or an instructor on the website. It was among the first to use badges, offering one for "Webcraft."

One recipient of the badge, Brylie Oxley, is now trying to revamp his resume to highlight the accomplishment. "I don't have a lot of formal educational background," says the 30-year-old resident of Nevada City, Calif. He is working through a computer systems program at local community college and says that his online classes at P2P University compare well to his in-person courses.

Some see more potential for badges in K-12 education than at colleges, as an incentive similar to the frequent "power-ups" and accolades that videogames offer. At the free online-education provider Khan Academy, for instance, students get a "Great Listener" badge for watching 30 minutes of videos from its collection of thousands of short lectures.

Even supporters of the badge idea concede that it could lead to problems. Dale Doherty, editor of Make Magazine, likes the approach, but he worries that there "will be sites that just dispense badges like candy, and that doesn't help create any kind of credential or meaning around them."

Critics fear that job applicants would falsely claim badges, though the technology is being designed to prevent that. And traditional scholars worry that a badge economy would put too much emphasis on job training rather than the search for new ideas.

Employers will ultimately determine whether badges are practical, and much will depend on how easy they are to use. Hiring managers who have trouble sorting through traditional resumes might need even more time to decode a patchwork of online badges.

But the new credentials could transform hiring. "When the first software developer gets a job from Google with a badge from Mozilla," says Philipp Schmidt, executive director of P2P University, "the flood doors are going to open."

[url="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204301404577170912221516638.html"]http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204301404577170912221516638.html[/url]
[/quote]


Perhaps this will save me some money.

[fides' Jack]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1338831675' post='2440641']
Perhaps this will save me some money.
[/quote]

Sadly, this new system will be even more expensive. Because that's how things work.

[PhuturePriest]

I can't read it all right now so I don't know how it could cost more. However, I am all for getting rid of the leverage colleges have over... everything.

[Papist]

I agree with fides. Some how they will rationalize charging more.

[arfink]

[quote name='fides' Jack' timestamp='1338831867' post='2440645']
Sadly, this new system will be even more expensive. Because that's how things work.
[/quote]

I don't believe that will be the case. Perhaps I am an optimist, but I think the only reason they will be successful is because they will charge less than conventional school. Maybe in 20 years the price will overtake regular colleges, but for the near future they actually cannot hope to be successful if they follow the traditional model.

I think perhaps you underestimate the willingness of this group of people to completely destroy the old system. And that is what they intend to do.

[PhuturePriest]

I have no problem with colleges, but people rely on that little piece of paper that states you know stuff just a little too much. My dad's friend Craig is around fifty. He finished high school and from then on he taught himself everything he knows. He's such a good engineer that he was hired to help design the Apache Helicopter. He is hired all over the world to engineer razzle dazzle devices that make our everyday life possible, and he does this without even an associates degree. There are so many people who would dismiss him for this, but he knows more about engineering than any of these kids getting their master's degree (If there is such a thing in engineering). Plus, the college system as a whole has become all about greed. $32,000 dollars a year for college? Really? In Rome to go to the huge seminaries that are taught by the world's greatest theologians it only costs ten thousand a year. We either need a complete re-haul over the whole college system or we need to find something else to balance the weight of power like these guys are suggesting, in my humble and rather fiery opinion about this particular matter. Again, I don't have any problem with colleges. If I were to go to college I would go in Rome. But I speak on behalf of all the college students that have $70,000 of debt when I say there needs to be a definite change, and student loans/scholarships don't cut it.

Edited June 4, 2012 by FuturePriest387

[arfink]

Something else to consider is that these people (the open source movement, the paypal founder) are not objectivists. They are perhaps best described as discordianists, in the tradition of Robert Anton Wilson.

They do not believe that information itself is valuable, but rather your ability to utilize it. They have stated that they believe the whole notion of a college degree is problematic not because it is expensive, but because all it guarantees is that you have had a certain set of information thrust at you.

The "merit badge" system is their experiment to try and measure your ability to use information, not to simply certify it has been thrown at you and that you have managed to memorize it.

Edited June 4, 2012 by arfink

[arfink]

I guess what I mean to be saying is that they are not simply trying to create a "cheaper college." Their ideas are [b]radically[/b] different. They actually want to move to an entirely different system of education altogether.

I think this may be a good thing, but Catholics should watch this closely because such an approach followed to its logical conclusion would completely undermine the Catholic scholastic tradition. Perhaps Catholics will be able to find a way to integrate this new understanding of education in our faith, perhaps not...

Edited June 4, 2012 by arfink

[Papist]

Also, the contrast of prestigious college degrees. How menaingful is it to be a Harvard Law grad [u]with honors[/u]? 76% of Harvard Law graduates, graduate with honors.

[tinytherese]

Sitting on your butt while being lectured on information and writing papers is not enough to know if you would be good in your field. Doing it in the real world is a whole different experience. Honestly, internships should be done before your senior or junior year.

How many people go into the workforce after college and see that they don't like the job or get burned out after three years or so (especially when it comes to teaching)?

When you are interviewed, your "head knowledge" for the job is only part of what they will ask you about. They also want to know about your skills and what sets you apart from other people with the same degree.

[i<3franciscans]

I still want to go to FUS and major in journalism. Just saying...

[Slappo]

I have a bachelor's in theology that cost me near $80,000. I used the degree for a whopping 4 months. Now I'm going back to college part time to get a degree in business and accounting - a field I've been working in 7.5 times longer than the field my degree is in.

Maybe colleges should start requiring X amount of experience in a degree field before being able to enter upper level courses.

[4588686]

[quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1338835382' post='2440693']
I have no problem with colleges, but people rely on that little piece of paper that states you know stuff just a little too much. My dad's friend Craig is around fifty. He finished high school and from then on he taught himself everything he knows. He's such a good engineer that he was hired to help design the Apache Helicopter. He is hired all over the world to engineer razzle dazzle devices that make our everyday life possible, and he does this without even an associates degree. There are so many people who would dismiss him for this, but he knows more about engineering than any of these kids getting their master's degree (If there is such a thing in engineering). Plus, the college system as a whole has become all about greed. $32,000 dollars a year for college? Really? In Rome to go to the huge seminaries that are taught by the world's greatest theologians it only costs ten thousand a year. We either need a complete re-haul over the whole college system or we need to find something else to balance the weight of power like these guys are suggesting, in my humble and rather fiery opinion about this particular matter. Again, I don't have any problem with colleges. If I were to go to college I would go in Rome. But I speak on behalf of all the college students that have $70,000 of debt when I say there needs to be a definite change, and student loans/scholarships don't cut it.
[/quote]

North Carolina has one of the best public universities in the nation and the tuition is a less than a sixth of the price you mentioned. That's uniquely cheap but as I recall Virginia and California have even better schools and, while slightly more expensive, are still substantially less than the prices you mentioned.

You can have very good schools and a relatively (relative the keyword) cheap price IF the state makes it a priority.

I can only hope the the republicans will be swift in destroying this awful system.

[quote name='i<3franciscans' timestamp='1338840892' post='2440755']
I still want to go to FUS and[u][i][b] major in journalism[/b][/i][/u]. Just saying...
[/quote]


DOOOONNNN'TTTT DOOOOOOO ITTTTTTTT

[4588686]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1338836316' post='2440703']
Also, the contrast of prestigious college degrees. How menaingful is it to be a Harvard Law grad [u]with honors[/u]? 76% of Harvard Law graduates, graduate with honors.
[/quote]


Pretty beaver dam meaningful if you're trying to get a job.

I personally have no doubt that someone with a degree from Harvard has a significant advantage over me, all other things being equal, in getting a job, grant, whatever. Obviously all other factors are not equal and my raw sexual charisma would win the day, but for somebody with an equivalent degree this would be a major obstacle.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Hasan

[PhuturePriest]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1338852529' post='2440863']
North Carolina has one of the best public universities in the nation and the tuition is a less than a sixth of the price you mentioned. That's uniquely cheap but as I recall Virginia and California have even better schools and, while slightly more expensive, are still substantially less than the prices you mentioned.

You can have very good schools and a relatively (relative the keyword) cheap price IF the state makes it a priority.

I can only hope the the republicans will be swift in destroying this awful system.
[/quote]

Well, unfortunately for me, if I major I will major in theology, meaning I'll have to go to a Catholic school, which costs $32,000 on average, as far as I have seen, and theologians make less money than Franciscans. This is all stupid because I can study in Rome for $10,000 a year. That doesn't include flights, but it's definitely still better economically.