Iacobus Posted May 16, 2004 Share Posted May 16, 2004 [quote name='CatholicAndFanatical' date='May 16 2004, 12:48 PM'] Voting for Bush is voting for No more overtime pay in our jobs, [b]illegal[/b] immigrants getting rights that we have without going through proper channels, and more and more jobs going overseas. Not to mention tax's that make rich richer and the poor the same. [/quote] Those issues and he seems a bit too gung ho for my pacisfist vote. A vote for a 3rd party may or may not help Kerry but think of it this way. You are to vote for who you want to win, not who is a possible winner. Don't like Bush doesn't mean likes Kerry. Likewise no Kerry doesn't mean Bush. Vote 3rd and express your true intent. They won't change till they are lossing votes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brickchick Posted May 16, 2004 Share Posted May 16, 2004 I'm voting Bush. I feel that if you vote independent, you are in a sense helping Kerry to win. Catholics, along with other pro-life people, need to unite, and keep a pro-life president in office. All the other issues are null, because if our country continues to kill our future, then none of it matters. Who cares if we aren't getting overtime, if we are allowed to kill the unborn children? Yes, I care about other issues, but the independents are not likely at all to get enough votes to win. If you truly want a pro-life president, then you have to vote Bush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP2Iloveyou Posted May 16, 2004 Share Posted May 16, 2004 I disagree with President Bush on many issues, most of the time, I think he is too liberal. However, a lot of you are saying that he is the "lesser of two evils." We heard that in 2000 as well. I am just wondering, because I am studying politics, what some of those issues are. I can understand how some of you disagree with the tax cut, other fiscal policy, or the war, but why? I want real, hard reasons. It is hard to have a thought provoking discussion when people just say, "I don't like Bush or I don't like Kerrey, or I don't like so and so." All I'm saying is that if you are going to say something like that, justify it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pio Nono Posted May 16, 2004 Share Posted May 16, 2004 JMJ 5/16 - Sixth Sunday of Easter President Bush could be classified as a "classical Liberal." This means that he's a turn-of-the-20th-century style liberal. Republicans in general (and Bush as chief of party) are classical liberals in greater or lesser degrees, and Pat Buchanan is their paradigm; this style of thought is harshly condemned by the Church (cf. [i]Rerum Novarum[/i], [i]Quadragesimo Anno[/i], and [i]Centessimus Annus[/i]). That's one of my big problems with him. [i]Prima facie[/i], it would seem that a teacher of mine in high school was right: Democrats don't care about you before you're born, and Republicans don't care about you after you're born. It's a sweeping generalization (a fallacy, for you logicians out there), so forgive me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iacobus Posted May 16, 2004 Share Posted May 16, 2004 Pio Nono, even if it is a fallacy it is how it seems often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley Posted May 16, 2004 Author Share Posted May 16, 2004 You must be joking. It is a [i]sin[/i] to vote for a man who will end the war in Iraq? While it is not a sin to vote for the man who started it? Please explain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iacobus Posted May 16, 2004 Share Posted May 16, 2004 To me it seems like it would be a sin to vote for a man who disregards the social justice teaching of the Church and who pushs so strong for war without talking first. Maybe not as much of a sin as voting for a pro abort but it is still a sin. And sin is sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicAndFanatical Posted May 16, 2004 Share Posted May 16, 2004 [quote name='JP2Iloveyou' date='May 16 2004, 01:26 PM'] I disagree with President Bush on many issues, most of the time, I think he is too liberal. However, a lot of you are saying that he is the "lesser of two evils." We heard that in 2000 as well. I am just wondering, because I am studying politics, what some of those issues are. I can understand how some of you disagree with the tax cut, other fiscal policy, or the war, but why? I want real, hard reasons. It is hard to have a thought provoking discussion when people just say, "I don't like Bush or I don't like Kerrey, or I don't like so and so." All I'm saying is that if you are going to say something like that, justify it. [/quote] JP, God bless ya. My biggest issues with Gee Dub is financial. The tax cut he put forth is a tax cut but it benefited the rich more than it did the poor. What about those people that only make like 18/k a year or lower? The will get less back in tax's than someone making 100,000/year...something wrong there. Another big issue is the overtime pay..brickchic says its a null issue, but around here were a manufacturing state, [b]everyone[/b] around here makes their money off of overtime pay. working over 40 hours a week is the norm around here, and if it werent for the overtime pay (time and a half, double time) we would be struggling even more than this town already is. Seems like G Dub is more concerned with business's than the regular people. When he said "I believe in letting the illegal immigrants in this country work the jobs that the American people cant by giving them working status.", I started to worry. He said this when speaking in New Mexico about a month ago. Not to mention California allowing illegal immigrants to have drivers license. My biggest concern is not immigration, im all for immigration. But when an illegal immigrant comes into the States, 9 times out of 10 he is affiliated with drugs, gangs and any other illegal activity. If they had good intentions why not try to become an American the RIGHT way, why sneak around unless he is up to no good? We need to keep those types out by putting the National Guards on the Borders and only letting those that have good intentions in. I agree with whoever said that All Catholics should join together, like were suppose to anyway, and keep the evil out of the white house. Vote pro-life, vote Bush. To do otherwise is indeed putting us against Christ.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicAndFanatical Posted May 16, 2004 Share Posted May 16, 2004 [quote name='Ashley' date='May 16 2004, 02:06 PM'] You must be joking. It is a [i]sin[/i] to vote for a man who will end the war in Iraq? While it is not a sin to vote for the man who started it? Please explain [/quote] it is a [i]Sin[/i] to vote for someone that is Pro-Death. easy enough? He's not even faithful to God, what makes you think he's going to be faithful to you or I? So what if he will pull our troops out of Iraq, which he even said himself that he will NOT do so your information is wrong. He agree's it would be wrong to pull the troops out now because it would only cause Civil War over there and make things worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enda Posted May 16, 2004 Share Posted May 16, 2004 (edited) [quote name='Iacobus' date='May 16 2004, 01:03 AM'] The Catholic paper here said Bush was pro life and anti stem cell more so than Kerry. However on all other issues Kerry is closer to the Churchs views. [/quote] The Church doesn't have a politcal worldview. Yes, there are a few things like basic human rights that the Church won't tolerate a government violating, but everything else is entirely subjected to the viewpoint of the indivual Catholic. I hate when people say "this is the Church's veiw on taxes" when they are really speaking from [i]their[/i] point of view. Politcs is a mostly irrevelant insitution compared to the slavation of souls. Why on earth would the Church bother with it? Edited May 16, 2004 by Enda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iacobus Posted May 16, 2004 Share Posted May 16, 2004 I am talking about what the Chruch says we need to do, aid the poor, work for peace, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enda Posted May 16, 2004 Share Posted May 16, 2004 Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight and that has nothing to do with politics, or was Christ a politcan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vianney Posted May 16, 2004 Share Posted May 16, 2004 And why do you think Republicans dont try to aid the poor and work for peace? Peace does not always constitute letting people do whatever the hell they want, sometimes you have to break the peace to achieve peace. Second off just because the Republicans are for reforming the welfare system completely does not mean they are against aiding the poor. They just realize that what is in place now is not the best system. What do you think they will do away with welfare and just leave it at that? Welfare needs to be reformed, it is a waste and doesnt teach people to break the cycle of poverty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enda Posted May 16, 2004 Share Posted May 16, 2004 Vianney, are you directing your statement to me, or Iacobus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vianney Posted May 16, 2004 Share Posted May 16, 2004 To all people who think that the Republican platform doesnt fit in well with Catholic social thought. I find it absurd to make that assumption and I disagree with it. But no it wasnt directed towrds you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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