Convents And Family Visits Per Year

[graciandelamadrededios]

Nunsense:

 

Everyone is entitled to our opinion, you are right.  We are all entitled to our own opinion but we have to be responsible on what we post.

 

The history I wrote and posted here are for everyone, not solely for you.  Remember that you are not the only audience in this forum.  Let me be very clear on that.

 

Also, that history outlines the origins and reasons of why family visits were restricted.  Not everyone here knows the history of cloisters.

 

I have not live Carmel and one does not have to, to understand it.  The Doctors does not need to have cancer to understand and treat its patients, and to say that your knowledge and experiences are far more superior than others because you are in Carmel is quite disturbing.  So the rest of us who who did not live and experience the cloister of Carmel does not know what we are saying and cant comment on it?

 

Let me reiterate that I am not trying to convince you: you are old enough and as you said have lived in five Carmels.  I wrote and posted my own explanation to balance what you said, for which I also have the right. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2014 by graciandelamadrededios

[AccountDeleted]

Nunsense:

 

Everyone is entitled to our opinion, you are right.  We are all entitled to our own opinion but we have to be responsible on what we post.

 

The history I wrote and posted here are for everyone, not solely for you.  Remember that you are not the only audience in this forum.  Let me be very clear on that.

 

Also, that history outlines the origins and reasons of why family visits were restricted.  Not everyone here knows the history of cloisters.

 

I have not live Carmel and one does not have to, to understand it.  The Doctors does not need to have cancer to understand and treat its patients, and to say that your knowledge and experiences are far more superior than others because you are in Carmel is quite disturbing.  So the rest of us who who did not live and experience the cloister of Carmel does not know what we are saying and cant comment on it?

 

Let me reiterate that I am not trying to convince you: you are old enough and as you said have lived in five Carmels.  I wrote and posted my own explanation to balance what you said, for which I also have the right. 

 

 

And I think we are in agreement about the fact that we are both entitled to our own opinions- thank you for admitting that. If you can show me in what way I am being irresponsible by posting my own opinion - then by all means please make your argument.

 

As for experience vs theory - a doctor does not have to suffer from cancer to have experienced it. A person who has only read about it does not know as much as the oncologist who has treated it or the patient who has suffered from it. Experience comes in many forms, but to imagine that simply reading about something is the same thing as having experienced it either first hand or second hand (as in the case of an oncologist) is foolhardy. I nursed my mother through cancer until her death. The doctor had more experience with the disease than I did, and my mother had the first hand experience but even I, with my experience of nursing her, know more about the impact the disease has on lives than someone who has just read about it. Your reasoning is fallacious. If you were right, then anyone who read a book about something would never have to experience it. What a staggering thought. 

 

And even if you are writing the history of the cloisters for everyone - history is just that - history. History had its reasons for what happened at that time, and today we have our reasons for things that happen- but we do not live in the medieval ages nor do we live in St Teresa's time, nor do we live in the Victorian era. If we are never to change anything because that is the way it was done in history, then by all means, let all convents remove all indoor plumbing and electricity, the telephone, the use of today's medicine and ambulances and emergency treatment. Let us return to the past in ALL things if you are going to use history as the reason for doing it. Yes, there were reasons for what happened then, and they were good reasons. But today there are reasons for re-evaluating things and Vatican 2 happened for that very reason.

 

Perhaps the baby was thrown out with the bath water in many situations following Vat 2 but even now the Church is looking to find it's source again, as are many convents, including Carmel- and that sources is Jesus - and mercy. 'I want mercy, not sacrifice.'

 

I am not saying that no sacrifice is necessary - before you or anyone else leaps to the conclusion that I am saying that. I am saying that the Rule of St Albert clearly states that COMMON SENSE is the guide to the virtues, and if St Teresa put things into her Constitutions that were necessary in her day, that doesn't mean that ALL of these things are still necessary today - and since the RULE came before the Constitutions, then it is the guiding principle. And despite the fact that St Teresa felt that Carmel needed reform, don't forget that she spent 20 years as an O Carm and was formed by them - saint that she was - so the foundation is solid - but changes need to be made from time to time - and maybe now is one of those times too?? The decision isn't mine - and it isn't yours. It is for each autonomous community to decide, and the family of Carmel is not just the Discalced Carmelites - it includes so many other variations as well. It is a big family, diverse and beautiful. It all started on Mt Carmel with the hermits, but Carmel has been through so many evolutions that it would be a shame not to see and embrace it in all its forms.

 

That's all I'm saying - there is room for all. Today's Gospel was so applicable to this -- maybe re-read it and see what I mean?

 

Your love of Carmel is obvious and I respect your years of study on the subject, but don't put on blinkers or you will miss what is to each side of you.

[graciandelamadrededios]

I do not wish to argue with you Nunsense.

 

There is no point since you are on your self defense mode and would hear nothing else but your own.

 

 

 

 

[AccountDeleted]

I do not wish to argue with you Nunsense.

 

There is no point since you are on your self defense mode and would hear nothing else but your own.

 

 

And I certainly don't wish to argue you with you either gracian - I feel much as you do about me - that you are closed and will refuse to listen to any opinions but your own, so it is good that we just agree to disagree before this appears to become acrimonious (if it doesn't appear so already!). VS gets ruined by such disagreements, doesn't it? I do enjoy your history thread about the OCDs - you obviously put in a lot of work and research to it and I am sure that all of VS appreciates it. I hope you can respect me equally as someone who is simply trying to live the life of a Carmelite nun. We can leave it there at mutual respect - ok?

[graciandelamadrededios]

And I certainly don't wish to argue you with you either gracian - I feel much as you do about me - that you are closed and will refuse to listen to any opinions but your own, so it is good that we just agree to disagree before this appears to become acrimonious (if it doesn't appear so already!). VS gets ruined by such disagreements, doesn't it? I do enjoy your history thread about the OCDs - you obviously put in a lot of work and research to it and I am sure that all of VS appreciates it. I hope you can respect me equally as someone who is simply trying to live the life of a Carmelite nun. We can leave it there at mutual respect - ok?

 

No comment

[AccountDeleted]

No comment

 

 

I'm sorry you feel that way. But please be assured that despite our disagreements, I harbor no bad feelings towards you personally, whatever you may feel about me. It won't be the first time that someone dislikes me for disagreeing with them and it won't be the last. So I'll just let scripture speak for me.

 

Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult. On the contrary, repay evil with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing.  1 Peter 3:9

 

Blessings upon you gracian.

[graciandelamadrededios]

I am not sure if I read it on the Constitutions of PCCs of Federation of Mary Immaculate or on the updated Custom Book sent by Mother Mary Francis, but I think, PCC's does not allow their Nuns to go out for family visits too.

 

I usually forget where I read them. 

 

 

[Deus te Amat]

I am so confused about what is going on right now. O.o

[AccountDeleted]

I am so confused about what is going on right now. O.o

 

 

Well, if we go back to the beginning, the OP asked about how often Carmelite nuns in the US were allowed to see or visit their family. Each person has tried to respond with some information based on what they know about a particular community (since each one is different). We got a little sidetracked by some discussion on brainwashing and cult-like behavior and perhaps now we can finally get back to the OPs original question. Maybe those who have knowledge of a particular community of Carmelite nuns in the US might address the original question.

 

I have personal knowledge of an OCD nun from San Diego was allowed permission to leave the convent to visit her mother who was very ill. I am not sure how long she was allowed to stay out, but I met her while she was out and we had lunch together and she was a lovely person - so sweet and caring and she shared some beautiful stories with me. Another time I asked the San Diego Carmelites for help on something personal and they obliged and went out of their way to help me, so I feel very warm towards them!

 

The OCD nuns in Seattle I am not too sure about but I do know they go out for meetings because I was emailing the Prioress one time when she told me she was away for a few days for a formator's meeting.

 

I doubt very much that either the Morristown OCD or the St Louis OCD go out but my visits with them have been limited so perhaps someone else could say for sure. The OP also said that she didn't want to spend money on lots of stamps so that is why she was asking here first. I understand that because when I first applied to US convents, I sent out over 60 letters! There are a lot of Carmelite monasteries in the US. :)

 

Various people offered info on different Orders but since the OP asked about Carmel particularly, I think a lot of the focus has been there. I don't remember who said it - but once again it comes down to each community being autonomous so no two doing things exactly the same way.  

[Chiquitunga]

I doubt very much that either the Morristown OCD or the St Louis OCD go out but my visits with them have been limited so perhaps someone else could say for sure.  

 

Morristown does not, St. Louis does for Association of St. Teresa meetings, not sure for anything else.

 

Also, sorry, I only just noticed that this thread has a lot on Carmel, and haven't been intentionally ignoring it, while posting like crazy in other "Carmelite" threads :topsy: Didn't mean that. Peace to all here! :pray: God bless!

[Postulant Christina]

In our community, the Benedictines of Elizabeth, NJ once professed we can visit family/friends for vacation time about three weeks we receive per year, and then we can visit with them for the holidays as well for a couple of days here and there.

[katherineH]

On 2/17/2017 at 8:58 AM, Postulant Christina said:

In our community, the Benedictines of Elizabeth, NJ once professed we can visit family/friends for vacation time about three weeks we receive per year, and then we can visit with them for the holidays as well for a couple of days here and there.

Can you visit your family during formation?

[Postulant Christina]

During Postulancy we are permitted to visit our family for a week over the summer and a couple of days here and there during holidays and for birthdays of our parents and our own birthday. During novitiate we are only permitted three visits to visit family during that time. 

[Spem in alium]

4 hours ago, Postulant Christina said:

During Postulancy we are permitted to visit our family for a week over the summer and a couple of days here and there during holidays and for birthdays of our parents and our own birthday. During novitiate we are only permitted three visits to visit family during that time. 

 

During my affiliacy/aspirancy, I could go home roughly once a month for an overnight stay, could attend birthday celebrations of my parents, and spoke with my family every week. In postulancy I could not visit them at all but they were able to come and see me every two months, and we spoke on Skype every two weeks. My novitiate schedule is still being sorted out, but it looks like I will not see my family at all during that time unless there is some signficant event or emergency.

[Therese1895]

The JMJ Carmels never leave the enclosure except for doctors, etc. But if you think that that's bad, the MC's only go home about once every ten years! At least that was the practice in the 80s and 90s. Families can visit more often, I believe.