qfnol31 Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 It's so funny reading some of these leaks. While I know nothing about Cardinal Sodano, I know quite a bit about his former secretary. His secretary seems like someone who'd really get along with Pope Benedict, so I dunno what all this fuss is really about. Oh well, it is true that sometimes it's more whom you know than what you know. Many episcopal appointments stem directly from prior connections and friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 [url="http://www.repubblica.it/esteri/2012/05/28/news/intervista_ansaldo_english_version-36076134/"]http://www.repubblica.it/esteri/2012/05/28/news/intervista_ansaldo_english_version-36076134/[/url] It is a very big mess, and it's very difficult to tell in the end whose side anyone is really on from our perspective hearing all the back and forth through the prism of the media... something big is going down between Benedict's allies and Benedict's enemies. It was certainly not just fluff or exageration when Benedict asked us to pray for him that he may not flee for fear of the wolves--the wolves are out in full force and trying to take down the pope. From the link I posted, it seems as if Bertone has acted against Ettore Gotti Tedeschi and Monsignor Carlo Maria Viganò who were attempting to reform the financial institutions against certain corruptions (possible laundering, as well as corrupt contracting awards), and the Pope has been largely powerless to counteract Bertone. of course, much conventional wisdom is that Bertone is himself Benedict's man, but it seems as if he may be damaging the Pope now, it's hard to say. all in all, this would be much easier to get a handle on without Paul VI's reforms of the curia, I think. it is all a much more convoluted mess nowadays, and the Pope's power to act is much more limited than it ought to be. the Secretary of State has all the power, the only power the Pope has to counteract that is to go nuclear and replace the Secretary of State, something he has apparently not deemed it worth doing at this time, because to do so could be worse than not doing so. (this is assuming the sides loosely painted by the anonymous source in the article I posted are accurate) Papist, the SSPX story is largely unrelated, though I'm sure somehow there are motivations among the pope's enemies relating to his plan. The "leak" I told you about, about how the Pope had already seen Fellay's version of the preamble and been ok with it was intentional, leaked to indicate to the CDF that they should not arbitrarily try to squash it or misrepresent it to him in the hopes of extinguishing a possible deal, if you believe those sources. all in all, I don't think we can just write this all off with a yawn and a sigh, but we can say that it is fully to be expected. the idea that there would be power struggles in an Institution such as this, an Institution wherein idealogy is so fundamental to its mission, is just another day under the sun--of course everyone there would be vying for influence to promote their agenda. in other news, dog bites man, republicans fight democrats, liberals fight conservatives, and traditionalists fight modernists. as for the financial corruption--that is something to be abhored, and it should be even more lamented that the institutional structure has made it so hard to reign in that type of corruption. I saw comments on one article where everyone was talking about absolute power corrupting absolutely, but I think that actually misses the point of what has been going on here. the post Paul VI papacies may have absolute power on paper, but in practice they are weakened in the internal affairs of the Vatican, and the Vatileaks scandal war being waged now indicate more that absolute beaurocracy has been corrupting absolutely in recent times at the Vatican. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfink Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Well see, all the media hears is "So the Pope's butler got some juicy goods on him, IT'S LIKE A REAL LIFE SOAP! Get the lights, cameras, and action packed up, we're going to Rome!" Or somesuch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 INTERVIEW WITH SUBSTITUTE FOR GENERAL AFFAIRS ON STOLEN PAPAL DOCUMENTS Vatican City, 30 May 2012 (VIS) - The "Osservatore Romano" newspaper today published an interview with Archbishop Angelo Becciu, substitute for General Affairs of the Secretariat of State, concerning the question of stolen papal documents. Archbishop Becciu says that he has seen the Holy Father "suffering because, on the basis of what has thus far emerged, someone very close to him would seem to have acted in a completely unjustifiable manner. Of course, the Pope's prevailing sentiment is one of pity for the person involved, but the fact remains that he has been the victim of a brutal action. Benedict XVI has had to witness the publication of letters stolen from his own home, not simply private correspondence but information, reflections, expressions of states of mind, and effusive comments which he has received merely by virtue of his ministry. For this reason the Pope is particularly sorrowful, also for the violence suffered by the writers of the letters he has received". In the view of the Secretariat of State, the publication of these documents "is an immoral act of unprecedented gravity, especially because it is not just a serious violation of the privacy to which everybody should have the right, but a despicable abuse of the relationship of trust that exists between Benedict XVI and those who turn to him, even if they do so to express some heartfelt protest. The question does not merely involve the theft of some of the Pope's letters; the consciences of those who address him as the Vicar of Christ have been violated, and the ministry of the Successor of the Apostle Peter has come under attack". It is, Archbishop Becciu said, unjustifiable to claim that the stolen documents were published for the cause of transparency and reform in the Church. Robbery and accepting stolen goods are both illegal. "These are simple concepts, perhaps too simple for some people, but certainly when a person loses sight of them he easily loses his way and also leads others into disaster. Renewal cannot trample moral law on the basis of the principle that the end justifies the means, which is not in any case a Christian principle". A number of articles which have appeared in newspapers in recent days have suggested that the published documents reveal turbid dealings inside the Vatican walls. On this subject the substitute for General Affairs notes that, "on the one hand they criticise the monarchic and absolutist nature of central Church government, while on the other they are scandalised because people who write to the Pope may express ideas or even complaints about how that government is organised. Many of the published documents do not reveal power struggles or vendettas but the freedom of thought which the Church is criticised for not allowing. ... Diverging points of view, even contrasting evaluations, are part of the normal order, and if someone feels misunderstood he has every right to turn to the Pontiff. What is scandalous about that? Obedience does not mean renouncing one's own opinions, but sincerely and fully expressing one's point of view, then abiding by the leader's decision". In conclusion Archbishop Becciu tells the Catholic faithful that "the Pope has not lost that serenity which enables him to govern the Church with determination and foresight. ... We wish to echo the Gospel parable which the Holy Father himself mentioned a few days ago: the winds beat against the house but it does not fall. The Lord sustains it and no storm can bring it down". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 (edited) of course the anonymous source in the link I posted indicated that it was the Secretary of State who was the big problem, so anything said from the office of the Secretary of State would obviously go the other way. like I said, I think it's very hard to see who is on whose side here... the only thing they all agree on is that the Holy Father has suffered much from all of this. the Holy Father's statement here could be read in the context of either account: [quote]Vatican City, 30 May 2012 (VIS) - At the end of today's general audience, the Holy Father made some remarks concerning recent developments in the Vatican. "The events of recent days involving the Curia and my collaborators have brought sadness to my heart. However, I have never lost my firm certainty that, despite the weakness of man, despite difficulties and trials, the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit and the Lord will ensure she never lacks the help she needs to support her on her journey. "Nonetheless there has been increasing conjecture, amplified by the communications media, which is entirely gratuitous, goes beyond the facts and presents a completely unrealistic image of the Holy See. Thus, I wish to reiterate my trust and encouragement to my closest collaborators and to all those people who every day, in silent faithlessness and with a spirit of sacrifice, help me carry out my ministry". [/quote] [url="http://visnews-en.blogspot.com/2012/05/pope-despite-weakness-of-man-lord-will.html"]http://visnews-en.bl...-lord-will.html[/url] On the one hand, I like this part of Becciu's statement: [quote]Diverging points of view, even contrasting evaluations, are part of the normal order, and if someone feels misunderstood he has every right to turn to the Pontiff. What is scandalous about that? Obedience does not mean renouncing one's own opinions, but sincerely and fully expressing one's point of view, then abiding by the leader's decision. [/quote] On the other hand, I think the statement as a whole is somewhat white-washing... I think there are likely some legitimate concerns about the finances of the IOR (the Vatican Bank) related to possible money laundering and awarding of expensive contracts with favoritivism in a way that wastes the Church's money. the Vatican Bank's name is the Institute for Religious Works, it is no ordinary bank, the money is meant for works of charity and beautiful art for the worship of God, any kind of impropriety with those funds is a huge evil that needs to be rooted out, and whatever else is going on and whatever side anyone is really on, I think a big part of it is the thrashing around of a beast that was poked. Edited May 30, 2012 by Aloysius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 I just like what he had to say about the enormous breach of confidence that took place by stealing the documents from the Holy Father. I think there's a lot of truth to that. I plan to keep posting what I find, but I really haven't formed an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Dan Brown is loving this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 [quote][T]he serenity of Benedict XVI comes from the knowledge that, since the beginning - since Pentecost itself - the ecclesial institution has seldom reached the level of its ideal. Imperfection is the rule whenever man are involved. Some have even spoken of a certain apathy of his before the recent, grave events that certainly do not touch upon theology, but harm the institutional machinery, with risk of scandal to the faithful and the loss of credibility of all of Catholicism. There are even some who, saying they speak as friends of the Pope and for the good of the Church, have advocated for a resignation that would lead him to finally go back to his true vocation: that of a scholar, retreated into solitude, alone with his books. Leaving to someone else, more active and attentive to the concrete life of the Church, the administration of things. But these friends of Joseph Ratzinger, whose good faith we do not venture do doubt, fail to understand that, in this way, they are actually playing the game of his enemies, if they truly wish to call him to go away with events such as the leak of private documents. As for apathy, who mentions it ignores that Benedict XVI does is not a friend of uproar, but of patient, meditated work, respectful of persons and that what he has already done, and does, is often overlooked by the media, but is not in fact irrelevant. And soon, it is said, they will have a proof that will astonish whomever accuses him of distance from the facts.[/quote][url="http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2012/05/something-astonishing.html"]http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2012/05/something-astonishing.html[/url] We should stay tuned to read between the lines of what happens in the Vatican over the course of the next months and years, I have the sense that Benedict is a subtle genius and will make everything right in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 [quote name='Aloysius' timestamp='1338773413' post='2440402'] [url="http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2012/05/something-astonishing.html"]http://rorate-caeli....stonishing.html[/url] We should stay tuned to read between the lines of what happens in the Vatican over the course of the next months and years, I have the sense that Benedict is a subtle genius and will make everything right in the end. [/quote] Viva Il Papa! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 [quote name='Aloysius' timestamp='1338773413' post='2440402'] [url="http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2012/05/something-astonishing.html"]http://rorate-caeli....stonishing.html[/url] We should stay tuned to read between the lines of what happens in the Vatican over the course of the next months and years, I have the sense that Benedict is a subtle genius and will make everything right in the end. [/quote] BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fides' Jack Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 You alright, bud? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 [quote name='fides' Jack' timestamp='1338831029' post='2440634'] You alright, bud? [/quote] yeah. Just totes pwning Aloysius, as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 [quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1338854345' post='2440908'] yeah. Just totes pwning Aloysius, as usual. [/quote]And succinctly too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 So is -leaks the new -gate, or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Prepare for Leaksigate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now