Fallen Catholic, Believes There Is No Proof God Exists. Needs Help&#33

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Feather2264' timestamp='1338274704' post='2436973']He now believes the universe is created by "The Big Bang Theory"
[/quote]
You mean this [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang_theory"]Big Bang Theory[/url], the one formulated by [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre"]Monseigneur Georges Lemaître[/url] ?

[the171]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1338315701' post='2437225']
You mean this [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang_theory"]Big Bang Theory[/url], the one formulated by [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre"]Monseigneur Georges Lemaître[/url] ?
[/quote]

I love that guy. He has helped me to prove that the Church supports scientific research so many times.

[sixpence]

If he is mostly just being thick-headed I would say mostly pray, don't spend excessive amounts of time having science vs religion debates with someone who is not willing to do it with an open mind; if he IS pretty interested in thinking about things and he likes reading books buy him some nice CS Lewis... I think "Miracles" dealt with the topic of science/proof/naturalism well

[the171]

Mere Christanity would be a great read.

[Amppax]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1338298807' post='2437050']
There is nothing to say that his belief in the Big Bang Theory and evolution of man from ape is necessarily incompatible with Catholicism, or a belief in God in general. You might want to point that out to him, for, as MiKolbe said, he seems to be conflating the answers to the "how" and the "who."

My phishy tag alludes to the fact that I, too, am experiencing what might be referred to as a dark night of the soul. For me, it is not so much that I don't believe in God, but rather that I have a profound sense of apathy towards Him. Nevertheless, my knowledge of the Faith informs my struggle, because my head knows the answers--or at least what fellow Catholics would say the answers are-- while my heart, and a large portion of my brain, are increasingly resistant.

Papist and MiKolbe are right, though. It's best not to make this your pet project. You don't know what brought your friend to this point, and it's very doubtful that he came to his new conclusions after someone pointed to a monkey and went "Eh! Huh? Yeah...." Just pray for him and be a voice of compassion, understanding and love. You can throw advocacy for the Church in there sometime after you've mastered those first 3 things. If he's got other religious friends and family, he's likely being put on the defensive a lot. Maybe being a testament to God's patience and love will prevail over whatever clumsy words and argumentation you could come up with.
[/quote]

It's official. You're now my favorite phishy, if you weren't already.

[dells_of_bittersweet]

I would add that there is a spacetime issue with energy creating itself. We know from Albert Einstein that matter/energy (two forms of the same thing) and time are co-dependent, meaning that time is created by the existence of matter. If energy has always existed, time has always existed. If so we have the logical contradiction of an infinite regress.

This also explains how God, existing outside of matter, can exist outside of time.

[franciscanheart]

Praying for him.

[Nola Seminarian]

[quote name='Feather2264' timestamp='1338274704' post='2436973']
Hey everyone. I know this guy who has seriously fallen away from the Catholic faith. This guy stopped being catholic because he found no proof that God existed. He now believes the universe is created by "The Big Bang Theory" and we are evolution of apes. His arguments make no sense stating that humans were formed from atoms in the stars, and in reply I asked who created the atoms, then he said energy. When I asked who created the energy he just simply said the energy created its self. He is not making no logic, but he says he believes what science says until I give him specific proof that god exists He believes prayer and reactions from God's power are just a reaction of the brain. I'm just not sure what to say anymore.. He needs his faith back and people to help and pray for him. Any ideas y'all think will help him believe that God is truly present?
[/quote]

If his is a philosophical mind, point him towards st Thomas Aquinas or Chesterton or Lewis.

Oh and by the way, there is no contradiction to the faith in believing that God used the process of the Big Bang to create the universe or that God used the process of evolution to create humans in our current form (and all of the other animals and insects and plants etc...)

[4588686]

[quote name='Nola Seminarian' timestamp='1345143614' post='2468707']
If his is a philosophical mind, point him towards st Thomas Aquinas or Chesterton or Lewis.

Oh and by the way, there is no contradiction to the faith in believing that God used the process of the Big Bang to create the universe or that God used the process of evolution to create humans in our current form (and all of the other animals and insects and plants etc...)
[/quote]

It's not a contradiction, but it does require Potolemyesq intellectual acrobatics to justify given the Church's condemnation of polygenism.

[Adrestia]

Prayers on the way.

I'm a scientist. It always irks me when people think that science can substitute for God, or that God can substitute for science. I find both concepts completely illogical. That being said, faith is a gift from God. Each of us must choose to accept it.

[Gabriela]

I agree with the others that it is not your best option to argue with him, nor is it in your capacity to bring him back to the Faith. But since this is, essentially, an apologetics question, and could be useful to others wondering how to counter someone who is arguing with them, I'll say this: With such people, what is fundamentally being questioned are the [i]standards of evidence[/i] one uses to "prove" God's existence. He is not accepting your standards, and you are not accepting his. You will get nowhere until you agree on the standards. So start by asking him, "What [i]would [/i]constitute good evidence for the existence of God?" I think you'll find that most people like your friend don't believe there is any such thing, because they don't [i]want[/i] to have evidence for God's existence. If that is the case, just pray for him and set a good example.

[Amppax]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1345147636' post='2468761']
It's not a contradiction, but it does require Potolemyesq intellectual acrobatics to justify given the Church's condemnation of polygenism.
[/quote]

You're making up words again.

[LittleWaySoul]

More concrete evidence, or concrete signs, could be things like incorruptible bodies of the saints, or Eucharistic miracles. The Shroud of Turin is razzle dazzle too. Just something to look into.

If you want philosophical reasons, look into objective morality, or the idea of love and other solely-human emotions. If he believes in objective morality, it's not much of a long shot from belief in God

[TheresaThoma]

Love him.
I converted to the Catholic Faith 3 years ago so I somewhat understand what your friend might be going through. Accepting God can be extremely scary. When you acknowledge that God exists your whole world gets turned upside down and inside out. Your friend may feel a bit scared by this and as a response is running away from it and rejecting it.
Faith is also a matter of the heart, you can present all the "proof" in the world but if his heart isn't open then it will do more harm than good. The best thing I think you can do is really live your faith. That is what touched me when I saw people who weren't openly out to convert me really living out a Christian life it got me to thinking and to opening up my heart. Those people intrigued me and I knew that I could ask them almost anything about their faith and get a "no strings attached" answer. It may take years for him to fully open up and come back but try your best to be there for him as an example and as a safe harbor.
I help out in RCIA and I have seen many people who have come back to the Faith after years away. It is definitely a hard journey to make but very rewarding.
Finally pray! Pray for him and pray that you and all those around you might be a living example of the Christian Catholic faith.


It also takes a bit to realize that science and Faith aren't mutually exclusive. I'm an Aerospace Physics major who likes to dabble in Astronomy. I can spend a whole day working on the science part but at the end of the day I can sit back, look at all we do know, what we don't know and the beauty and see God in all of it, then give thanks to God for all of it. So in a way science leads me to God. Science is the outline, faith is what colors everything in!

[Aragon]

The Big Bang theory was put forward by a Catholic priest. I don't know why so many people think there's some conflict between the big bang and belief in God. In no way does it negate God's existence, in fact it supports it because we now know that the universe is not eternal and had a beginning at some point in time.