Fallen Catholic, Believes There Is No Proof God Exists. Needs Help&#33

[Feather2264]

Hey everyone. I know this guy who has seriously fallen away from the Catholic faith. This guy stopped being catholic because he found no proof that God existed. He now believes the universe is created by "The Big Bang Theory" and we are evolution of apes. His arguments make no sense stating that humans were formed from atoms in the stars, and in reply I asked who created the atoms, then he said energy. When I asked who created the energy he just simply said the energy created its self. He is not making no logic, but he says he believes what science says until I give him specific proof that god exists He believes prayer and reactions from God's power are just a reaction of the brain. I'm just not sure what to say anymore.. He needs his faith back and people to help and pray for him. Any ideas y'all think will help him believe that God is truly present?

[beatitude]

Feather, I think perhaps you too need a little more faith in God.

People lose faith for all kinds of reasons, known only to them - and God. It's very personal. I know several people who have gone through periods of severe doubt, even atheism, to return as Catholics with a deeper and much more beautiful insight into their faith than they ever had before. Trust in Jesus to bring your friend home, and remember this verse: "I have not lost one of these whom You gave me."

Try to avoid seeing it as your responsibility to convert your friend. That's God's work, and deciding that you must argue with him and convince him is itself a lack of faith - you are putting more trust in your own powers than in God's. Pray for your friend to learn what he needs to learn and for God to send the right people into his life to help him. Accept that it may take time - maybe weeks, maybe years. Never stop praying for him. Also pray that you will be a good example of what it means to be Catholic, and your whole life will illustrate the Gospel. Perhaps set aside a Holy Hour each week for people who doubt, and ask St Therese for her intercession - her own doubt grew so acute that she started to call atheists her spiritual brothers and sisters.

[Papist]

If there is no God, there are questions unanswered. Why is there something rather than nothing? This question was asked by Aristotle and Leibniz alike; although with differing answers. But it is an historic concern. Why is there conscious, intelligent life on this planet, and is there any meaning to this life? If there is meaning, what kind of meaning and how is it found? Does human history lead anywhere, or is it all in vain since death is merely the end? How does he come to understand good and evil, right and wrong without a transcendent signifier? If these concepts are merely social constructions, or human opinions, whose opinion does he trust in determining what is good or bad, right or wrong? If he is content within atheism, what circumstances does he need to make him open to other answers?

[Papist]

Also, I recommend discussing this with him as to get to know him and how he thinks. I would go at it with the goal of convincing him there is a God.

[MIKolbe]

[quote name='Feather2264' timestamp='1338274704' post='2436973']
Hey everyone. I know this guy who has seriously fallen away from the Catholic faith. This guy stopped being catholic because he found no proof that God existed. He now believes the universe is created by "The Big Bang Theory" and we are evolution of apes. His arguments make no sense stating that humans were formed from atoms in the stars, and in reply I asked who created the atoms, then he said energy. When I asked who created the energy he just simply said the energy created its self. He is not making no logic, but he says he believes what science says until I give him specific proof that god exists He believes prayer and reactions from God's power are just a reaction of the brain. I'm just not sure what to say anymore.. He needs his faith back and people to help and pray for him. Any ideas y'all think will help him believe that God is truly present?
[/quote]

He sounds like he has all the 'how' questions answered. Though the engery creates itself is rather telling...

Unfortunately, without God, he will never be able to answer all the 'why' questions.

Pray for him. Be a good witness. And then pray for him some more. Just know that you can never argue anyone to (or back to) the faith. You can only say the truth with love, and pray the Holy Spirit opens his heart and mind; and pray he is open to whatever prompting he might get from Him.

[Papist]

[quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1338294397' post='2437022']
He sounds like he has all the 'how' questions answered. Though the engery creates itself is rather telling...

Unfortunately, without God, he will never be able to answer all the 'why' questions.

Pray for him. Be a good witness. And then pray for him some more. Just know that you can never argue anyone to (or back to) the faith. You can only say the truth with love, and pray the Holy Spirit opens his heart and mind; and pray he is open to whatever prompting he might get from Him.
[/quote]

Well said.

[kujo]

There is nothing to say that his belief in the Big Bang Theory and evolution of man from ape is necessarily incompatible with Catholicism, or a belief in God in general. You might want to point that out to him, for, as MiKolbe said, he seems to be conflating the answers to the "how" and the "who."

My phishy tag alludes to the fact that I, too, am experiencing what might be referred to as a dark night of the soul. For me, it is not so much that I don't believe in God, but rather that I have a profound sense of apathy towards Him. Nevertheless, my knowledge of the Faith informs my struggle, because my head knows the answers--or at least what fellow Catholics would say the answers are-- while my heart, and a large portion of my brain, are increasingly resistant.

Papist and MiKolbe are right, though. It's best not to make this your pet project. You don't know what brought your friend to this point, and it's very doubtful that he came to his new conclusions after someone pointed to a monkey and went "Eh! Huh? Yeah...." Just pray for him and be a voice of compassion, understanding and love. You can throw advocacy for the Church in there sometime after you've mastered those first 3 things. If he's got other religious friends and family, he's likely being put on the defensive a lot. Maybe being a testament to God's patience and love will prevail over whatever clumsy words and argumentation you could come up with.

Edited May 29, 2012 by kujo

[Papist]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1338298807' post='2437050']
There is nothing to say that his belief in the Big Bang Theory and evolution of man from ape is necessarily incompatible with Catholicism, or a belief in God in general. You might want to point that out to him, for, as MiKolbe said, he seems to be conflating the answers to the "how" and the "who."

My phishy tag alludes to the fact that I, too, am experiencing what might be referred to as a dark night of the soul. For me, it is not so much that I don't believe in God, but rather that I have a profound sense of apathy towards Him. Nevertheless, my knowledge of the Faith informs my struggle, because my head knows the answers--or at least what fellow Catholics would say the answers are-- while my heart, and a large portion of my brain, are increasingly resistant.

Papist and MiKolbe are right, though. It's best not to make this your pet project. You don't know what brought your friend to this point, and it's very doubtful that he came to his new conclusions after someone pointed to a monkey and went "Eh! Huh? Yeah...." Just pray for him and be a voice of compassion, understanding and love. You can throw advocacy for the Church in there sometime after you've mastered those first 3 things. If he's got other religious friends and family, he's likely being put on the defensive a lot. Maybe being a testament to God's patience and love will prevail over whatever clumsy words and argumentation you could come up with.
[/quote]

Kujo,

If this doesn't deserve a prop, nothing does. And I am not saying that b/c you said I am right. It is humble and sincere while giving sound advice. I have argued for you and other phishies to be able to be propped. Even though one is phishy tag, one should be permitted to give a prop if deserving. You and I bump heads a lot. This is true. I may disagree with much of your posts, but when I believe you deserve props, I would like the ability to do so. God bless you.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1338298807' post='2437050']
There is nothing to say that his belief in the Big Bang Theory and evolution of man from ape is necessarily incompatible with Catholicism, or a belief in God in general. You might want to point that out to him, for, as MiKolbe said, he seems to be conflating the answers to the "how" and the "who."

My phishy tag alludes to the fact that I, too, am experiencing what might be referred to as a dark night of the soul. For me, it is not so much that I don't believe in God, but rather that I have a profound sense of apathy towards Him. Nevertheless, my knowledge of the Faith informs my struggle, because my head knows the answers--or at least what fellow Catholics would say the answers are-- while my heart, and a large portion of my brain, are increasingly resistant.

Papist and MiKolbe are right, though. It's best not to make this your pet project. You don't know what brought your friend to this point, and it's very doubtful that he came to his new conclusions after someone pointed to a monkey and went "Eh! Huh? Yeah...." Just pray for him and be a voice of compassion, understanding and love. You can throw advocacy for the Church in there sometime after you've mastered those first 3 things. If he's got other religious friends and family, he's likely being put on the defensive a lot. Maybe being a testament to God's patience and love will prevail over whatever clumsy words and argumentation you could come up with.
[/quote]Well said, Kujo.

[the171]

Feather,

This is mostly for you. Like you said when we were texting, he is proof. He may not accept himself as proof, but just look at humans!! We are complex creatures. We can think, we can create art, we can feel emotions, we can REASON. Can animals reason? No, they are instinctive creatures. They have no soul. No reason. They are not rational beings like us. Just have faith, I AM praying for him. When you receive the Eucharist, offer that Eucharist up for him. At the Consecration, remember your friend. I love you!!

[Feather2264]

Thank you all sooo much! This helps a ton(:

[4588686]

Tickle his belly.

[Aloysius]

how could the universe be created by a television show on CBS? the universe has to already exist for that show to exist, so it logically cannot be the creator of the whole universe.

[Papist]

[quote name='Aloysius' timestamp='1338313639' post='2437194']
how could the universe be created by a television show on CBS? the universe has to already exist for that show to exist, so it logically cannot be the creator of the whole universe.
[/quote]

Where's Sheldon when you need him?

[the171]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1338313824' post='2437195']
Where's Sheldon when you need him?
[/quote]

in HIS seat.

[img]http://www.lolroflmao.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Which-seat-should-I-take-Not-this-one.jpg[/img]