Human Dignity Without Theology

[Byzantine]

Is there a way to assert human dignity to someone who isn't religious? How is it done?

[LaPetiteSoeur]

I think it is possible. Usually, if someone asks why I am pro-life, I say because children and women have inherent dignity as human beings, for no other reason than they are human, and abortion is an insult to that. No one has ever questioned me on it.

Most people, even those who are not Catholic, understand human dignity.

[Papist]

I don't if I could explain it, but a image might help them at least reflect on it.

A woman gets out of the shower and sees a stranger or even a friend peeking at her naked. She immediately, like it is an instinct, uses her hands and arms to cover herself and quickly reaches for a towel. But if it were her husband looking at her, she wouldn't.

[Theresita Nerita]

This question is one of the big ones that made me become religious in the first place. Yes, many (most? all?) non-theists will intuitively understand what you mean when you say "human dignity." But human dignity is nothing more than an ideal, not a reality, without the reality of God. Without God's fatherhood,human dignity slowly becomes less definable, then becomes interchangeable with "not being treated unjustly" or "not doing anything animalistic" depending on the context. And yes, those are both aspects of dignity, but without the concept of God, there is no way to explain it. For example, does a person who has committed war crimes have human dignity? If human dignity is "the condition of having been created in the image of God" then yes. But without the concept of God, human dignity is more often loosely defined as "not behaving subhumanly" or "deserving to be treated with respect" and then the answer becomes, sometimes, no. And then people begin assessing who deserves or possesses dignity and who doesn't. And then you get violence.

In short, the problem with all non-theistic definitions i can come up with is that they are all too vague and can be redefined too easily to keep people from treating others in ways not at all in keeping with human dignity.

Sorry for the brain dump and not really answering the question, but this really made me think!

Edited May 30, 2012 by Theresita Nerita

[Laudate_Dominum]

I've wondered about this a bit lately. I was on a forum with hardly any religious members the other day and the misanthropy in one of the threads was really shocking to me. And it's not like I haven't been around the block a few times. Anyway, it's hard not to wonder. Still, I don't think lack of religious beliefs necessarily means a deflated view of humanity and a rejection of human dignity. It's hard to generalize and compare though. If one's understanding of human dignity is based on supernatural categories then a naturalist is surely not going to share the concept. There are humanistic ways of establishing human dignity though.

[Papist]

Yes. I believe beauty and dignity can be recognized without knowing their origin.

[Basilisa Marie]

I think it's hard to argue for why humans have dignity without the beautiful image of God theology we have. Most of the arguments I've seen basically come down to it being self-evident.

[BarbTherese]

To take a wild 'stab' : Humanists are coming from humanist philosophies; whereas we are coming from Scripture, since theology interprets Scripture. We are foundationally or fundamentally different from humanists. Aspects of humanism may seem Christian, as Christian values may seem to be humanist. "Seem" is operative since our foundations are totally different. We are built upon God (Scripture), humanists are built on shifting sands which is humanity itself without God.
We believe in the existence of God and Faith in Him, that humanity/existence has a particular reason i.e. Heaven and Unity with God and that our intrinsic dignity is in God - as revealed by Scripture. Humanists do not have these beliefs, this Faith in God and of a particular end and purpose for existence. Of our human dignity and rights flowing from outside of human existence itself and flowing from God to humanity.
We assert and hold to absolutes based on Scripture (God's revelation of Himself to humanity); humanists to relativism revolving around humanity itself - - - shifting sands.

Edited June 2, 2012 by BarbaraTherese

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

you have to become small and not dominate them without letting them walk all over you, and if such a person tries we can not react fiercly.

Edited June 2, 2012 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye

[Anomaly]

[quote name='BarbaraTherese' timestamp='1338637457' post='2439865']
To take a wild 'stab' : Humanists are coming from humanist philosophies; whereas we are coming from Scripture, since theology interprets Scripture. We are foundationally or fundamentally different from humanists. Aspects of humanism may seem Christian, as Christian values may seem to be humanist. "Seem" is operative since our foundations are totally different. We are built upon God (Scripture), humanists are built on shifting sands which is humanity itself without God.
We believe in the existence of God and Faith in Him, that humanity/existence has a particular reason i.e. Heaven and Unity with God and that our intrinsic dignity is in God - as revealed by Scripture. Humanists do not have these beliefs, this Faith in God and of a particular end and purpose for existence. Of our human dignity and rights flowing from outside of human existence itself and flowing from God to humanity.
We assert and hold to absolutes based on Scripture (God's revelation of Himself to humanity); humanists to relativism revolving around humanity itself - - - shifting sands.
[/quote]Not to be too nit-picky, but humanists can be theist or atheist. It's like saying only Christians can be theists, they're not mutually exclusive terms. There were/are many Christian Humanists. Humanism is a philosphy is based on the dignity/worth of a human being intregral to their existence as apposed that human worth is merely defined by utilitarian value to society. Some have said a guy named Karol W. was a Christian Humanist. Humanism is NOT a religion. The difference is a theist (Christian) perspective of humanism would say a human has dignity and worth because God created them so. An atheist humanist perspective recognizes special humans traits such as we're the only species that are capable of deriveiving pleasure from both creating or enjoying art, recognizing the beauty of nature, etc. Very similar conclusions from different perspectives.

[PhuturePriest]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1338311025' post='2437154']
I don't if I could explain it, but a image might help them at least reflect on it.

A woman gets out of the shower and sees a stranger or even a friend peeking at her naked. She immediately, like it is an instinct, uses her hands and arms to cover herself and quickly reaches for a towel. But if it were her husband looking at her, she wouldn't.
[/quote]

Can you tell me why this analogy helps with human dignity?

Edited June 5, 2012 by FuturePriest387

[Papist]

[quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1338931255' post='2441403']
Can you tell me why this analogy helps with human dignity?
[/quote]

It illustrates that the human dignity is written in our hearts.

[BarbTherese]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1338928475' post='2441369']
Not to be too nit-picky, but humanists can be theist or atheist. It's like saying only Christians can be theists, they're not mutually exclusive terms. There were/are many Christian Humanists. Humanism is a philosphy is based on the dignity/worth of a human being intregral to their existence as apposed that human worth is merely defined by utilitarian value to society. Some have said a guy named Karol W. was a Christian Humanist. Humanism is NOT a religion. The difference is a theist (Christian) perspective of humanism would say a human has dignity and worth because God created them so. An atheist humanist perspective recognizes special humans traits such as we're the only species that are capable of deriveiving pleasure from both creating or enjoying art, recognizing the beauty of nature, etc. Very similar conclusions from different perspectives.
[/quote]

Thank you!

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1338928475' post='2441369']
Not to be too nit-picky, but humanists can be theist or atheist. It's like saying only Christians can be theists, they're not mutually exclusive terms. There were/are many Christian Humanists. Humanism is a philosphy is based on the dignity/worth of a human being intregral to their existence as apposed that human worth is merely defined by utilitarian value to society. Some have said a guy named Karol W. was a Christian Humanist. Humanism is NOT a religion. The difference is a theist (Christian) perspective of humanism would say a human has dignity and worth because God created them so. An atheist humanist perspective recognizes special humans traits such as we're the only species that are capable of deriveiving pleasure from both creating or enjoying art, recognizing the beauty of nature, etc. Very similar conclusions from different perspectives.
[/quote]

But how fast can simple pleasure turn into pain without God, like opium,alcohol,sex,food,greed for money etc etc We believe God teaches us what nature can't, and that he gave us the holy scriptures as a foundation to subdue the beast which is pretty much untamed wild pleasure.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye