Girls State Director Says Teen Must 'sacrifice' Mass Attendanc

[4588686]

[quote name='Ice_nine' timestamp='1337898275' post='2434519']
Dearest Hasan, the only thing I take offense at is how hastily you can race to conclusions sometimes. I'm not offended, I just think it's incredibly stupid to compare an athletic event to a religious one. Zeal and effort aside, the ends each seeks to achieve are so vastly different its laughable. One concern the fate of your immortal soul, the other temporary glory/fame/sense of accomplishment or whatever. In light of the former, the latter is drastically unimportant. [/QUOTE]

To you because you believe it. If you don't have a religion than earthly achievements

[QUOTE] So ok, you think the afterlife is all a bunch of fairy tales and hocus pocus and many of those who even believe in all that nonsense don't think religion is a big deal and thus comparable to a sports event. Great, I understand that's the general intellectual climate right now, but I think its incredibly asinine. [/QUOTE]

I actually didn't say that. All I said was that some individuals are just as passionate about their athletic and/or scholastic endevours as this girl is about her religion. Why does she get accommodations when they don't? Why can't someone leave for two hours on a Saturday to compete in a meet that they've been pursing their hearts and souls into for years? Isn't their request also reasonable? Of course, it is. But the point is that these are all very passionate, high achieving, intelligent women who all have their own events and passions that could take place during the girls week. Does the event have to accommodation each and every one of them? There may be Muslim and Jewish students. Do they need to clear time Friday and Saturday to accommodation them? Do they need to provide a chaperon to every students who wants to leave the area to find a religious service of their liking? This girl isn't asking for anything unreasonable. But if they start making exceptions for one person then they have to do it for everyone and that would make things very difficult.

I'm not criticizing the girl. She's not doing anything wrong. But sometimes things just don't work out. This isn't discrimination. She's free to attend. She's the one who decided that their accommodations don't suit her. And that's fine. But I don't see why some here want to turn this into a victimhood campaign. Sometimes things just don't work out how you want. If you want to be firm in your religion that's fine. But if you are going to say that you absolutely must be able to attend Mass every sunday then some things are just not going to work out. That's sad but it's life. You don't always get to have your cake and eat it too.

[QUOTE] Additionally I don't quite remember saying the program should "drop everything to give her special accommodations." Although it seemed that the girl had done most of the grunt work on arranging that, but whatever. It's just how it is. It's stupid, but I'm not the one yelling for a lawsuit.

Oh hassy I don't know why you dislike me so! Is it my avatar? Am I too mugly looking? I thought we could be friends! I am so disappoint.
[/quote]


I don't know when or where I ever said that I dislike you. I enjoy reading your posts. I just disagree with you.

Edited May 24, 2012 by Hasan

[4588686]

[quote name='Slappo' timestamp='1337891080' post='2434480']
IDGI.... I honestly don't understand the big deal here and mostly agree with Hassan. :shrug:. This isn't religious discrimination, bigotry, or any such thing... It is a secular event. It may be poor planning on the part of the event schedulers to not allow their attendees to fulfill relgiious obligations, but it isn't discriminatory.

I'm more offended that they offered a non-denom service and refused to allow other options than I am that they specifically refused her special treatment. As if non-denom was a one size fits all. If they didn't offer any relgious service, and also did not allow people to attend a church service of any kind then I'd have zero problems.

If it was a big enough deal and a legitimate reason to miss mass according to the spiritual advice of her pastor then the girl could have requested a dispensation from the sunday mass obligation. I've had to miss mass on Sunday for various legitimate reasons. Birth of my child, 12 hour flight from LA to China where I was literally in the air for all "24 hours" of Sunday (12 hour time change 12 hour flight). I've also had to make sacrifices to attend mass - skip out on a tournament game to attend mass on Sunday for instance.
[/quote]

I agree with all of this. I think it's easy to look at this one girl's case and ask they can't just give her a chaperon and let or leave or arrange for a Catholic Priest to come. But they can't make special arrangements for her and then refuse anyone else simmilar accommodation. This is a state wide event. There are a lot of girls attending. I think that generic religious events like what they arranged are stupid but I understand why it's the best option that works for the most people. Letting each girl find her own Church service would not work. Churches have services at different times. Do they have to arrange for dozens of different pastors and religious leaders to get there? I really doubt that all of them would be available at the same time. Do they have to clear the whole Sunday so girls can bring in different people at different times?

This would get really unworkable really fast and I think it's pretty understandable that they don't want to go down that road.

[Ice_nine]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1337899278' post='2434525']
To you because you believe it. If you don't have a religion than earthly achievements
[/quote]

To me. Right. It's so boring to pretend to be unbiased and impartial all the time tho.

[quote]I actually didn't say that. [/quote]

Sorry, I thought in other posts you've called religion "your personal fairytale," but maybe you were just playing devil's advocate.


[quote]I'm not criticizing the girl. She's not doing anything wrong. But sometimes things just don't work out. This isn't discrimination. She's free to attend. She's the one who decided that their accommodations don't suit her. And that's fine. But I don't see why some here want to turn this into a victimhood campaign. [/quote]

I don't either. I just think it's stupid.


[quote]I don't know when or where I ever said that I dislike you. I enjoy reading your posts. I just disagree with you[/quote]

oh my goodness (don't blasphemy) REALLY?! my life = complete. Remember me when you become sultan of the NWO . . . or something like that.

[Slappo]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1337899817' post='2434526']
I agree with all of this. I think it's easy to look at this one girl's case and ask they can't just give her a chaperon and let or leave or arrange for a Catholic Priest to come. [/quote]

I wouldn't see a problem if they had a liability waiver to excuse an individual from the event. The individual and parents would have to sign a liability waiver, the individual would have to sign out at the time of leaving the event, and sign in at the time of returning to the event. For those hours the individual is on her own and it is the parents repsonsibility to ensure she is appropriately chaperoned and safe.

Administratively this would be pretty easy for the organization to do and very little work would be involved on the part of the organization. No "special arrangements" but if someone wants out, they have to agree to not hold the organization liable and have to sign out to show when that person is no longer under the guardianship of the organization.

Edited to add: I don't know what all the legal repercussions of this would be or if legally it would even be possible, but I don't see why it wouldn't.

Edited May 24, 2012 by Slappo

[4588686]

[quote name='Slappo' timestamp='1337900493' post='2434532']
I wouldn't see a problem if they had a liability waiver to excuse an individual from the event. The individual and parents would have to sign a liability waiver, the individual would have to sign out at the time of leaving the event, and sign in at the time of returning to the event. For those hours the individual is on her own and it is the parents repsonsibility to ensure she is appropriately chaperoned and safe.

Administratively this would be pretty easy for the organization to do and very little work would be involved on the part of the organization. No "special arrangements" but if someone wants out, they have to agree to not hold the organization liable and have to sign out to show when that person is no longer under the guardianship of the organization.

Edited to add: I don't know what all the legal repercussions of this would be or if legally it would even be possible, but I don't see why it wouldn't.
[/quote]

Well I think that such a solution would be something to consider if this were a free day. But I thought that the letter said that the Sunday is a day where they are doing an orientation and the girls need to be present. I don't see how it would be workable for each girls to be coming and going during the orientation for (at the minimum) and hour. More likely two hours since they'd have to get to the Church and get back.

[Ash Wednesday]

They should have just left the Sunday morning OFF. Surely a morning off wouldn't fark up a whole 9 day event. That time should be set aside to let people do what they choose. Seems to me that was the way a it for lot of events, camps and conferences I attended or friends attended -- Sunday mornings were just always left alone. I'd rather see time allowed for that than shoehorning everyone into a bogus interdenominational service. My best friend attended Girls' State and my alma mater hosted it so we were very involved in it -- they don't need a whole day for that baloney, and if you try to give "orientation" for a day those kids minds will be gone off to the clouds after a few hours anyway.

Whatever, it's one less thing for the scholarship application, she will manage and probably feel better by standing by what means the most to her. I know missing out on these things seem like a big deal in high school but it's really just a blip on the radar of life.

Edited May 25, 2012 by Ash Wednesday

[Ash Wednesday]

I would have at least left the morning open until a sunday brunch, like starting at 10:30 or 11 a.m. Most churches have an early morning mass by then and I don't think that would have been unreasonable for them to schedule.

I don't know if they meant to pick on any particular religious group but it's poor planning. Certainly learning about the government, all right!

[Amppax]

I went to Boys State (and I'm actually going back to be a counselor this summer) and we didn't have a problem at all. There were different services available for everyone, and it all worked out.

Then again, Ohio is amesome.

[CatherineM]

I went through this every summer. The summer camp I attended had a chapel service on Sunday morning and vespers Sunday night. There was always one counselor who was Catholic and would drive those of us who wanted to go into town for mass. I worried every summer though that there might not be a Catholic counselor that summer.