Historical Anti Pope Quotes

[dairygirl4u2c]

"Was Cyprian Wrong? No, Cyprian was right, and history remembers him, not Stephen. Numerous writings of St. Cyprian have been preserved, but none of Stephen's.
But our subject here is not whether Cyprian was right. The subject is whether Cyprian can be quoted as proof of papal primacy in the 3rd century church. And clearly, he cannot be.
Even if St. Cyprian was a heretic and dangerous man, the issue is that Catholic apologists are quoting him in defense of the bishop of Rome having the authority of a pope in Cyprian's time. Quoting him out of the context of his life and his other sayings is simply dishonest."

[Papist]

Please provide examples of the quotes the apologists are using and point out the dishonesty for each. Also, with each quote, give why is the apologist quoting.

[PhuturePriest]

I'm not following the logic being thrown around here, but oh well. On to bigger and greater things, like prayer and War in the North.

[dairygirl4u2c]

sometimes in my mind it goes without saying, but i realize it's not clear to all.
if you go to catholic.com or whereever you list a list of quotes supporting the pope as catholics understand... you find cyprian as a crux quoter, most others are too vague.

here are some by him.
"Cornelius was made bishop by the decision of God and of his Christ, by the testimony of almost all the clergy, by the applause of the people then present, by the college of venerable priests and good men ... when the place of Fabian, which is the place of Peter, the dignity of the sacerdotal chair, was vacant. Since it has been occupied both at the will of God and with the ratified consent of all of us, whoever now wishes to become bishop must do so outside [the Church]. For he cannot have ecclesiastical rank who does not hold to the unity of the Church" (ibid., 55[52]:8).
"With a false bishop appointed for themselves by heretics, they dare even to set sail and carry letters from schismatics and b.asphemers to the chair of Peter and to the principal church [at Rome], in which sacerdotal unity has its source" (ibid., 59:14).

what it seems is that cyprian was talking to firmilian, both quoted above, and rejecting something unanimously with lots of bishiops, rejecting the bishop of rome's decision.
we could stretch the issue, and assume he meant a matter that is not within the pope's official declaration or somehow secondary or whatever, etc... but it appears cyprian is defying the pope out right and blantantly.
how do we reconcile this with just quoted quotes? "catholic church" probably means something like "orthodox church" or "christian church", much like how the orthodox still talk about the catholic church as itself. etc in the historical more generic sense. with the bishop of rome being first amoung equals.

Edited June 7, 2012 by dairygirl4u2c

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' timestamp='1339086529' post='2442189']
sometimes in my mind it goes without saying, but i realize it's not clear to all.

[/quote]
There's a word for that. 'Delusion' comes to mind.

[Amory]

I was quite disappointed to find this thread lacked any quotations from Alexander V, John XXIII (no, not [i]that[/i] John XXIII), or Felix V.

[dairygirl4u2c]

please, by all means, inform me why those quotes would be relevant.
that is a sincere request.

[Amory]

This thread [i]does[/i] claim to be about anti-pope quotes.