Gays In Military

[qfnol31]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1338257242' post='2436807']
I did refer to 'open' in the same post and in posts before and after that post, I have been clearly consistant. Context is king.

I do not agree with Hasan, or you on this point, the word open implies approval of and or freely acting on something. Perhaps if the word Chaste was added to the term it could mean otherwise. I would again referece the CDF document on the topic of making the temptation public, [i]as a rule, the majority of homosexually oriented persons who seek to lead chaste lives do not publicize their sexual orientation.[/i]

Of course there is much more to the Church's teaching on homosexuality and those that suffer from that unnatural disorder. I cannot write of every detail. But to be clear I never advocated or stated that unjust discrimination was ok, that [color=#282828]being gay is itself immoral or that [/color][color=#282828]all gay people act on their inclinations. Nor will I ever. [/color]
[/quote]I agree with the CDF and you on the point about chaste lives, though to be honest, I have a couple friends who have been highly encouraged to tell people of their homosexual tendencies (why, I'm not sure, but anyways...) and they both lead chaste lives. That's why I want to be clear on the meaning of "openly homosexual."

As for serving in the military, you say that such a ban is a ban based on their actions alone, then, is that correct?

[Groo the Wanderer]

keep it in the closet. outside the closet and in the trenches, act like a man. unless you are a woman.

[kujo]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1338258577' post='2436823']

[img]http://introtosociology.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/abu-ghraib.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

See, that's ok because it's a LADY doing it to MEN. Thus it's a heterosexual activity. Like watching Downton Abbey. See the distinction?

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1338258577' post='2436823']
[spoiler][img]http://introtosociology.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/abu-ghraib.jpg[/img][/spoiler]
[/quote]

The persons who committed these grave offenses against the dignity of their fellow man also should not serve in any honorable or moral military.

Edited May 29, 2012 by KnightofChrist

[kujo]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' timestamp='1338258911' post='2436833']
keep it in the closet. outside the closet and in the trenches, act like a man. unless you are a woman.
[/quote]

Are gay men not men unless they're not gay?

Just looking to see where your head is at. Actually, given your posts in this thread, I've got a pretty good idea where it is. Do you have a LCD screen behind your small intestine or something? How else could you see from up there?

[Groo the Wanderer]

you make no sense and seem to know what I mean about acting like a man. dear fellow, let me assure you , you do NOT.

so for you my friend

[kujo]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' timestamp='1338259221' post='2436842']
you make no sense and seem to know what I mean about acting like a man. dear fellow, let me assure you , you do NOT.

so for you my friend
[/quote]

Speaking of not making sense, can I request a revision of that first paragraph into something resembling a cohesive thought?

[Groo the Wanderer]

no. you have no credibility in my universe.


and i am somewhat dyslexic. this finds its way into my typing. good on ya for making fun of handicaps

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1338259110' post='2436840']
The persons who committed these grave offenses against the dintiy of their fellow man also should not serve in any honorable or moral military.
[/quote]
I don't know exactly which country operates an honorable and moral military, but I know the US military serves to protect the interests of the USA, and above all, the interests of the USA's government. Perhaps, at times, decisions are made to have the appearance of honor or morality for the purposes of PR, and certainly there are many honorable and moral individuals who are in the armed forces of the US and other nations, but I do not buy into the religion of statism, so I reject the concept that the US armed forces are some beacon of morality to a world of heathens.

[kujo]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' timestamp='1338259404' post='2436846']
no. you have no credibility in my universe.


and i am somewhat dyslexic. this finds its way into my typing. good on ya for making fun of handicaps
[/quote]

You have your own universe?

And don't pull the "mystery dyslexic card" as guilt on me. I've seen you form many well thought out posts on here before. Your handicap was unknown to me, but it doesn't make that post any less intelligible.

[Groo the Wanderer]

why are you calling me handicapped? i am not handicapped. foul!


i think i have made my point. one can argue a point ad nauseum even when it makes no sense.


honestly, what offends me is being told i have to accept a lifestyle i believe to be aberrant and incompatible with my beliefs and the teachings of my God. someone struggles with SSA? I pray for them. its a heavy cross to bear. someone tells me i have to embrace their behavior and accept it as normal? don't think so.

As for people with SSA in the military...keep it to yourself. I also do not want coed showers, latrines, or barracks. this is a modesty issue.

[kujo]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' timestamp='1338259976' post='2436858']
why are you calling me handicapped? i am not handicapped. foul!


i think i have made my point. one can argue a point ad nauseum even when it makes no sense.


honestly, what offends me is being told i have to accept a lifestyle i believe to be aberrant and incompatible with my beliefs and the teachings of my God. someone struggles with SSA? I pray for them. its a heavy cross to bear. someone tells me i have to embrace their behavior and accept it as normal? don't think so.

As for people with SSA in the military...keep it to yourself. I also do not want coed showers, latrines, or barracks. this is a modesty issue.
[/quote]

Who is telling you to accept homosexuality? No one on this thread. In fact, the only people trying to force their beliefs on others are you and KoC, who seem to be arguing that being gay = immoral = not fit for military duty. That's your belief, informed fully by your religious beliefs. But the US armed services is not the Catholic Church and it's not "society." It's a weapon to be used to protect our country and our interests. Being gay, straight, black, white, left handed, red headed, bald, arachnophobic...none of that makes you specially fit or unfit for duty.

At least that's my opinion. If you can't have a discussion or debate without feeling all butt hurt about people disagreeing with you, I suggest you visit the Lame Board or the Prayer Room. Or you could take your own advice and just "act like a man."

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='qfnol31' timestamp='1338258674' post='2436824']
As for serving in the military, you say that such a ban is a ban based on their actions alone, then, is that correct?
[/quote]

Yes, external conduct or external approval of conduct that is objectively disordered is the basis of such a ban.

[qfnol31]

Kujo, I agree that allowing homosexual behavior and accepting it are two different things, don't the two often end up going together? Look at what's happened out in California over the last few years where allowing it has morphed into being accepting and supporting of "other lifestyles."

[Ice_nine]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1338259523' post='2436850']
I don't know exactly which country operates an honorable and moral military, but I know the US military serves to protect the interests of the USA, and above all, the interests of the USA's government. Perhaps, at times, decisions are made to have the appearance of honor or morality for the purposes of PR, and certainly there are many honorable and moral individuals who are in the armed forces of the US and other nations, but I do not buy into the religion of statism, so I reject the concept that the US armed forces are some beacon of morality to a world of heathens.
[/quote]

so basically, you hate America and all it stands for.