kujo Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 [quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1338573831' post='2439466'] no it's not... they're just words on paper... if gay "marriage" were law, you could be 'denying' someone's civil rights if you refused to "marry" them.... big whoop-dee-doo.... criminal vs. civil charges... come on.. at least be man enough to admit consent is all that's needed.... (that was baitng right there) [/quote] If you can't accept the difference between criminal and civil law, then I guess we ought to just stop debating this topic. If they're just "words on paper" that carry no signficance beyond the fair market value of the ink and parchment used to create the facsimile of the idea you are attempting to convey, then why can't we just put some new ink on the paper to allow gays to get married? We're talking about contractual agreements between parties of sound body, mind and of proper age to enter into a legally-binding agreement. You want to make this about the morality of the act, and I will not take the bait, because the point of tort law in the U.S. is NOT to instill morality in the citizens involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 you're hiding.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 [quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1338574031' post='2439467'] I'm disappointed you didn't continue reading, check the foot notes, etc. You were challenging my statement that laws restrict or protect social customs, and have an effect on behaviors, including sexual behaviors. Personally, I felt that 'truth' was intuitive but accepted you challenge. [/quote] I did continue reading the link you sent. I didn't read every section of that paper, nor did I look at the footnotes. But I got the jist--human sexuality is no different than the rest of human behavior, in that it is all socially constructed, and can therefore be manipulated by a variety of factors, including religious instruction and civic involvement. That doesn't mean that allowing gays to serve in the military will somehow make me wanna bang a dude. That's because I'm not gay. I have never been gay, and there was no time in my life where I looked around and said "Gee, can someone please tell me who I am supposed to direct my sexual energy towards?" I don't believe in this "Patient 0" approach to sexuality, as put forth by the Ph.D. you posted. That idea might work for language, but it doesn't work for sexual attraction, which is tied to biology and physiology, a fact that he obscures in service to his desire to pursue a neo-Freudian approach to psychosexual studies.[quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1338574421' post='2439471'] you're hiding.... [/quote] This closet is reallllllyyyyy nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 so it's razzle dazzle because she had consent? [url="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/25/nadine-schweigert-woman-marries-herself_n_1546024.html"]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/25/nadine-schweigert-woman-marries-herself_n_1546024.html[/url] Your weave is worse than kat williams' Please tell me your better half is joining us in July.....PLEASE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) [quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1338574537' post='2439473'] so it's razzle dazzle because she had consent? [url="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/25/nadine-schweigert-woman-marries-herself_n_1546024.html"]http://www.huffingto..._n_1546024.html[/url] Your weave is worse than kat williams' Please tell me your better half is joining us in July.....PLEASE! [/quote] Again, I really do.not.care.who.marries.who.provided.there.isn't.coercion.and.both.parties.are.of.legal.age EDIT: I will no longer respond to posts which attempt to draw a correlation between homosexuality and pedophilia, incest or any other clearly illegal activities. Edited June 1, 2012 by kujo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH both parties??? Why are you a number bigot????? Who says marriage is between 2 people? Who says marriage is between a man and a woman??? wait.. don't answer the second one... simply cleave to your discriminations.... words are whatever we define them to be.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1338574466' post='2439472'] I did continue reading the link you sent. I didn't read every section of that paper, nor did I look at the footnotes. But I got the jist--human sexuality is no different than the rest of human behavior, in that it is all socially constructed, and can therefore be manipulated by a variety of factors, including religious instruction and civic involvement. That doesn't mean that allowing gays to serve in the military will somehow make me wanna bang a dude. That's because I'm not gay. I have never been gay, and there was no time in my life where I looked around and said "Gee, can someone please tell me who I am supposed to direct my sexual energy towards?" I don't believe in this "Patient 0" approach to sexuality, as put forth by the Ph.D. you posted. That idea might work for language, but it doesn't work for sexual attraction, which is tied to biology and physiology, a fact that he obscures in service to his desire to pursue a neo-Freudian approach to psychosexual studies. This closet is reallllllyyyyy nice. [/quote]You really, really, need to read more of the book, including the sections on homosexuality because you missed a critical point. It is PARTIALLY socially constructed, and yes, you're right, is manipulated by a varitey of factors such as religous and civic influence. No, acknowledging and protecting homosexual behavior doesn't make you WANT to have sex with another male, but it does remove social and cultural impediments from the question of 'Why Not?'. How you value yourself as an individual and a contributing member of society is influenced by your cultral and religious beliefs and values. We all know there is a divergent view of values and we all develop these values within a mix of religous, social, civil, and scientific opinions. Again, majority opinion will prevail, but as humanity develops theology, philosophy, and scientific knowledge, our societies evolve. We are all trying to guess what's the best choice for individuals and our community. We can respect different opinions, even if we don't agree, but we won't ever have a universal agreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 [quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1338575417' post='2439481'] You really, really, need to read more of the book, including the sections on homosexuality because you missed a critical point. It is PARTIALLY socially constructed, and yes, you're right, is manipulated by a varitey of factors such as religous and civic influence. No, acknowledging and protecting homosexual behavior doesn't make you WANT to have sex with another male, but it does remove social and cultural impediments from the question of 'Why Not?'. How you value yourself as an individual and a contributing member of society is influenced by your cultral and religious beliefs and values. We all know there is a divergent view of values and we all develop these values within a mix of religous, social, civil, and scientific opinions. Again, majority opinion will prevail, but as humanity develops theology, philosophy, and scientific knowledge, our societies evolve. We are all trying to guess what's the best choice for individuals and our community. We can respect different opinions, even if we don't agree, but we won't ever have a universal agreement. [/quote] Have you ever met someone who came to their conclusions about who they were sexually attracted to based on the sort of cost-benefit analysis you are inferring here? I like girls. I have liked them for every second of every day that I can remember. I don't know that there's any "impediment" that shuffled my thoughts towards that direction. Pretty sure that it was the boobs, or the potential for boobs.[quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1338575390' post='2439480'] WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH both parties??? Why are you a number bigot????? Who says marriage is between 2 people? Who says marriage is between a man and a woman??? wait.. don't answer the second one... simply cleave to your discriminations.... words are whatever we define them to be.... [/quote] As I've already stated in previous threads, I don't really have a problem with polygamy, with the usual caveats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1338575137' post='2439478'] Again, I really do.not.care.who.marries.who.provided.there.isn't.coercion.and.both.parties.are.of.legal.age EDIT: I will no longer respond to posts which attempt to draw a correlation between homosexuality and pedophilia, incest or any other clearly illegal activities. [/quote]Read more of the book. I would tend to agree with you that homosexuality doesn't necessarily promote pedophilia, pedestry, or incenst. My question is what effect does it have on society as a whole. Read a bit on the family structure and role in society. Human behavior and institutions derived from these behaviors have a dynamic effect in the health and welfare of individuals and society as a whole. Though I'm ex-Catholic, logic and reason doesn't have much arguement against their fundamental values that direct how we see ourselves as more than individuals and part of the greater society. Even a non-theist humanist acknowledes the simple fact that a human is more than an individual with obligations both to themselves as well as to society, our fellow humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1338575619' post='2439486'] Have you ever met someone who came to their conclusions about who they were sexually attracted to based on the sort of cost-benefit analysis you are inferring here? I like girls. I have liked them for every second of every day that I can remember. I don't know that there's any "impediment" that shuffled my thoughts towards that direction. Pretty sure that it was the boobs, or the potential for boobs. [/quote]Okay. So do you have more than one woman that you have a relationship with to increase your boobage potential? Or because of your relationship with your fiance, you made the cost/benefit calculation that you'll stick with just the one woman? Social mores, her attitudes, your friends, and family, will change their opinion of you if you're relationships were based on maximizing boobage potential. Most everybody wants to be loved and have an intimate relationship. Is it better religously, socially, psychologically, morally, sexually, biologically, if it's with another commited person of the opposite sex? Enter the influence of social, civil, and religous ethics and morals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1338575619' post='2439486'] As I've already stated in previous threads, I don't really have a problem with polygamy, with the usual caveats. [/quote] quit duckin me, boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1338575619' post='2439486'] Pretty sure that it was the boobs, or the potential for boobs. [/quote] Men can have boobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 [quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1338575390' post='2439480'] words are whatever Hasan defines them to be.... [/quote] Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 [quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1338577068' post='2439499'] Men can have boobs. [/quote] STOP CALLING ME FAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 [quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1338577807' post='2439508'] STOP CALLING ME FAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [/quote] More cushion for the pushin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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