Papist Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 [quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1338404779' post='2437913'] I have heard this argument before, and of course my opinions come from NEVER being in the front lines of battle, nor even being in the military. So I must temper my opinion with that. But... isn't the military supposed to invoke discipline? Can't discipline 'over rule' thoughts about whether the guys next to me is homosexual?? I've worked with homosexuals before and even roomed with them on business trips. No big whoop. Again, I have never had to advance on a hill or fight back the enemy, so maybe I am wrong... but a part of me still wonders about the discipline aspect of it all.... So you can tell when 2 sets homosexual men are at dinner; which ones are 'on dates' and which ones are just going to dinner? or any 2 men having dinner and going to the movies are dating, no matter what? [/quote] You got me IGN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 you just contradicted yourself... you just said "Nor did I say there are incapable of being in a chaste" right after you said "For heterosexuals, being in a dating relationship does not presume they are being unchaste or inappropriate. For homosexuals it does" Either that, or you are fixated on the word 'dating'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 [quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1338404779' post='2437913'] I have heard this argument before, and of course my opinions come from NEVER being in the front lines of battle, nor even being in the military. So I must temper my opinion with that. But... isn't the military supposed to invoke discipline? Can't discipline 'over rule' thoughts about whether the guys next to me is homosexual?? I've worked with homosexuals before and even roomed with them on business trips. No big whoop. Again, I have never had to advance on a hill or fight back the enemy, so maybe I am wrong... but a part of me still wonders about the discipline aspect of it all.... So you can tell when 2 sets homosexual men are at dinner; which ones are 'on dates' and which ones are just going to dinner? or any 2 men having dinner and going to the movies are dating, no matter what? [/quote] This is only conjecture for me. I too have not served in the military. Yes. The men should be able to be disciplined enough to get passed the uncomfortableness. I wonder if they conclude it better/easier to address the 1% rather than the 99%. Again, this is conjecture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmilyAnn Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 [quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1338405125' post='2437921'] you just contradicted yourself... you just said "Nor did I say there are incapable of being in a chaste" right after you said "For heterosexuals, being in a dating relationship does not presume they are being unchaste or inappropriate. For homosexuals it does [b]for the latter.[/b]" Either that, or you are fixated on the word 'dating'... [/quote] No I didn't. I should have been more precise. I have corrected above in bold. They can be in a chaste relationship, sure. But it would be improper and inappropriate for them to be in a dating relationship. I use the word 'dating' to differentiate from a platonic friendship. It's not fixating, it's being clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amory Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 (edited) Romantic relationships, by their very nature, are ordered to sexual relationships; romance is a preparation for and is intrinsically tied to sex. Where a moral sexual relationship in the future is possible (such as between an unmarried man and an unmarried woman), a romantic relationship can be morally permissible. Where a moral sexual relationship in the future is impossible (such as between a man and another man's wife, or between two persons of the same sex), a romantic relationship cannot be morally permissible. Edited May 30, 2012 by Amory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 MIkolbe, does your wife approve of you hanging out with a particular woman for lunch or dinner? How would this reaction differ if you could possibly be attracted to the second woman, even if you're only acting as friends. My wife would kill me either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1338386647' post='2437767'] Rude, condescending, mocking... Why, if I'm not mistaken, that it the Socratic method, am I right? [/quote] pppppppprrrrrrrrooooooopppppppsssss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 [quote name='qfnol31' timestamp='1338405644' post='2437930'] MIkolbe, does your wife approve of you hanging out with a particular woman for lunch or dinner? How would this reaction differ if you could possibly be attracted to the second woman, even if you're only acting as friends. My wife would kill me either way. [/quote] I have mulitple 'little sisters" and have texted many other 'women'. I have been to many a lunch and dinner with many a woman while married. Even my ex-girlfriend (who is a lesbian now)... Unless you are implying it is impossible for me to have a platonic and even loving relationship with someone of the opposite gender and then try to use it as a corolary of how it is equally impossible for 2 homosexual men to do the same. I am not responsible for the over sexualizing of society; nor do I judge others through that lens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 [quote name='Amory' timestamp='1338405559' post='2437928'] Romantic relationships, by their very nature, are ordered to sexual relationships; romance is a preparation for and is intrinsically tied to sex. Where a moral sexual relationship in the future is possible (such as between an unmarried man and an unmarried woman), a romantic relationship can be morally permissible. Where a moral sexual relationship in the future is impossible (such as between a man and another man's wife, or between two persons of the same sex), a romantic relationship cannot be morally permissible. [/quote] realize you are assuming a sexual relationship as it pertains to all those who live with SSA. that ain't right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 [quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1338406930' post='2437953'] I have mulitple 'little sisters" and have texted many other 'women'. I have been to many a lunch and dinner with many a woman while married. Even my ex-girlfriend (who is a lesbian now)... Unless you are implying it is impossible for me to have a platonic and even loving relationship with someone of the opposite gender and then try to use it as a corolary of how it is equally impossible for 2 homosexual men to do the same. I am not responsible for the over sexualizing of society; nor do I judge others through that lens. [/quote]I think it's very possible for people of opposite sexes (or homosexuals of the same sex) to have a platonic relationship. I know many girls to whom I doubt I'd ever be attracted and I'm very aware that SSA doesn't mean you're attracted to everyone of your sex. But part of the reason my wife would take offense is that I'm possibly putting myself into a compromising situation and may not be presenting the proper dignity to my current state of life (again, not necessarily the case, but here appearances do matter). All this is to say that a relationship is about more than sex and chastity is as well; chastity extends well beyond the bedroom walls. I'm not sure what you mean about the over-sexualization of society. Isn't this an evil we should want to combat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amory Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 [quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1338407148' post='2437961'] realize you are assuming a sexual relationship as it pertains to all those who live with SSA. that ain't right. [/quote] I am not assuming that all those attracted to members of the same sex are involved in a sexual (or even romantic) relationship. I have stated above that "[color=#282828]it is expedient for the government not to tolerate in the ranks of its military those who openly commit homosexual acts," and have referred above to "[/color][color=#282828]those who perpetually engage in same-sex intercourse."[/color] [color=#282828]To clarify, I don't think that one should be disallowed from joining the military or fired from it simply for being attracted to persons of the same sex. However, I do think that those who openly commit homosexual acts should not be allowed in the military. [/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 [quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1338403764' post='2437904'] maybe this is a function of youth, maybe not. I have known and do know multiple homosexuals...most of whom are dear friends. none have ever told me of their exploits. maybe i am an anomoly? [/quote]Why did you have to say I'm unattractive to other men? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 [quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1338408116' post='2437990'] Why did you have to say I'm unattractive to other men? [/quote] I love you... .platonically of course.. and we can never have dinner together... [quote] (again, not necessarily the case, but here appearances do matter). [/quote] THAT is what I mean by the over-sexualizing of society. You don't know what I am doing having dinner with a female other than my wife, but the appearance is somehow bad? You see two men (sounding all lispy) having dinner together, and you have no idea what they are doing, but the appearance is somehow bad? why MUST the appearance be bad? answer - the over sexualizing of society... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 [quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1338396653' post='2437825'] Am I an active heterosexual? [/quote] Not from what I've heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 I cannot believe I used the wrong form of hear. Can you edit that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now