Should Father Be Arrested By The Liturgicops For This?

[dells_of_bittersweet]

So I have a question about whether something that happened today at Mass is allowed. I've seen this done in many other cases as well.

Is it permitted to sing the Alleluia a second time after the gospel has ended?

Pax!

P.S. Maybe we could make this a running thread for similar questions.

[Lilllabettt]

yes. it is permitted.

[qfnol31]

It's quite common, thought it's out of the ordinary for the Mass. I know different dioceses where this practice is more common, but as far as I know it's not part of liturgical norm.

[Ed Normile]

Wow, Liturgicops! How can I get word to these lawbringers about a ceratin catholic church in my area? This place is fairly odd in many ways, it has no kneelers in the pews, the large round stained glass window behind the altar, also the centerpiece of the church is a picture of a tree, they have thoughtfully added the tabernacle for the reserved consecrated Host off to the right side in a seperate room with a view from the church, the church has at least seven 4 foot diameter satin butterflies in yellow and pink for decorations hanging around it and the presiding priest today was kind enough to engage in a large hand holding chain on the altar with all the EMHC's that was mimicied as it wove its way through the pews, this was real touching as people craned to reach over and hold the hand of those that were reaching to hold others hands back in the next pew, of course there were those who were standing there doing the "y" from the old song YMCA. The decorations and the tree window look like some kind of wiccan thing, but the altar plants being a pine tree and some type of indoor tropical were amusing.

ed

[Ed Normile]

Oh, and by the way i do not think the priest should be arrested in any circumstance due to liturgical norms, but being flogged with a long strand of holy palm would be appropriate.

ed

[tinytherese]

I wish there really were liturgicops.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uprjmoSMJ-o&list=PL06C60DF1A67E20DB&index=14&feature=plpp_video"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uprjmoSMJ-o&list=PL06C60DF1A67E20DB&index=14&feature=plpp_video[/url]

[ThePenciledOne]

[dominicansoul]

what about when Father asks us all to extend our hands to bless each other? is that allowed? At the end of Mass, it looks like this:


[img]http://www.stjames-cathedral.org/Events/2007/sisters/retirement4.gif[/img]



i'm usually the only one who leaves arms down... i just feel kinda awkward doing this...

[cmotherofpirl]

absolutely not.

[sixpence]

[quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1338302694' post='2437071']
what about when Father asks us all to extend our hands to bless each other? is that allowed? At the end of Mass, it looks like this:


[img]http://www.stjames-cathedral.org/Events/2007/sisters/retirement4.gif[/img]



i'm usually the only one who leaves arms down... i just feel kinda awkward doing this...
[/quote]

I asked about this is Q&A once and short answer: yes, sometimes allowed
http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/113327-lay-people-raising-hands-to-bless/#entry2251821

Edited May 29, 2012 by sixpence

[Papist]

[quote name='sixpence' timestamp='1338305258' post='2437091']
I asked about this is Q&A once and I'm pretty sure cappie said the laity are allowed to give certain blessings, I'll try to find it!
[/quote]

Even during the liturgy? I'll be interested to read cappie's post.

[qfnol31]

I think he said people fold their hands for such blessings.

By the way, I've been meaning to say this for a while now, but liturgicops are normally in favor of such actions. They tend to be lay people who went into a liturgical degree to change the Church without being ordained. Scary people!

Phatmass liturgicops are the exception to this rul in my experience.

[Lil Red]

i never do the "Heil Hitler" salute. I just can't bring myself to do it.

[Aloysius]

The Alleluia acclamation is meant to precede the liturgical action of the gospels, because it is a joyful announcement that the gospels are coming. When the book of the gospels is being processed back to the Pope or to the Bishop in order for them to bless the congregation with the book of the gospels, a second Alleluia may be sung during that procession, or at least there is Papal precedent for such. The practice of a second Alleluia may have arisen from copycatting such papal liturgies, but those who copycat fail to notice that the Alleluia is, in the Papal liturgy, again preceding a liturgical action of the gospels, not the reading of them but the blessing of the people with them, therefore in the Papal liturgy and a bishops' liturgy, it is again an announcement that the gospels are coming.

here's a good explanation of the details of the issue:
[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/liturgy/zlitur197.htm"]http://www.ewtn.com/...y/zlitur197.htm[/url]

in the grand scheme of things, though, a second alleluia to mimic a papal liturgy is not something to get too riled up about. while it is not called for in the GIRM and is thus an abberation, they are well-intentioned so it doesn't really bother me too much. when this practice becomes more egregious is when they replace "Laus tibi Christi/Praise to you Lord Jesus Christ" with a second Alleluia. just adding in an Alleluia at the end could arguably be part of the homily or some other such ridiculous justification, but taking away the response praising our Lord after hearing the gospel is not acceptable at all for any reason.

as far as the group extending of the hands, I don't like it, not one bit. while Cappie's answer in Q&A is correct that lay people can engage in invocative blessings (but the hands are to be folded during those), I do not believe it follows that the priest can introduce into the liturgy a group-blessing, even if that blessing is only invocative rather than a constitutive blessing. it is not that the blessing is wrong (though the posture certainly is wrong for a lay blessing), it is the fact that it is added to the liturgy that is wrong methinks.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Aloysius

[Aloysius]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1338309904' post='2437149']
i never do the "Heil Hitler" salute. I just can't bring myself to do it.
[/quote]lol I was actually going to make such a reference but decided against it, glad to see I'm not the only one who's a little freaked out by groups of people who look like they're doing the Roman salute.