Discalced Carmelite Nun Communities

[inperpetuity]

I think future priests and religious, especially, should also be aware that the practice of the early church was always to receive communion in the hand. There are beautiful quotes in the writings of the early fathers of the church about receiving the body of Christ reverently in one's hands. For example, this one from 4th century by
ST. CYRIL OF JERUSALEM.
(Cateches. Mystagog. v.(1))
"When thou goest to receive communion go not with thy wrists extended, nor with thy fingers separated, but placing thy left hand as a throne for thy right, which is to receive so great a King, and in the hollow of the palm receive the body of Christ, saying, Amen."

It was also common for lay people to take some of the consecrated bread home, from which they would communicate themselves during the week or to share with the sick who could not be at Sunday Eucharist. And the early church comunities shared the sacrament under both species.

It is important for people to know the history of liturgical practices and learn that things in Christendom have not been fixed in Council of Trent style for 2 millenia. If you are not informed, you can be deceived by those who want to make their opinion your law.

I endorse neither method of receiving the Blessed Sacrament as preferred- I do pray that we always approach this great gift with holy reverance and gratitude for the merciful love it demonstrates.

 

Although I already knew this, I didn't think I could articulate it as well, so I presented this explanation to a good, holy priest I know who is in 100% communion with the Holy See.  This is what he replied:

 

"This is a case of an idea called antiquarianism condemned by Pope Pius XII in his encyclical "Mediator Dei". This error states that just because something was done in the past, it means that it should be done today. However, this disregards the wisdom of the Saints and the legitimate development of Doctrine in the Church. For instance, the full reality and consequences of the Truth of the Real Presence was not as thoroughly understood in the early Church until the more profound understanding of Metaphysics and Transubstantiation was expounded by St. Thomas Aquinas and defined as Dogma in the 1200's. Over time, the Church has developed a much stronger sense of reverence for the True Presence even in the small Particles of the Eucharist. For instance, the priest must hold his fingers together after touching the Eucharist lest any particles be lost. He only allows his fingers (that touch the Eucharist) to separate after he ritually cleanses his fingers after Communion. Thus, the idea of the Eucharist be handled by unconsecrated hands that are not ritually cleansed has the effect of diminishing the belief and reverence in the True Presence that has increased since the 1200's. Communion in the hand inevitably means that Sacred Particles end up remaining on people's hands and then are simply transferred to WHEREEVER??!! those hands may end up touching in the course of the next few hours. KYRIE ELEISON. For instance, it is not completely uncommon to see Communicants brushing their hands on their clothes after Communion. And there are much less reverent places that the Sacred Particles end up. CHRISTE ELEISON. For instance, it is a fact that satanists have been grateful that thanks to Communion in the hand, they can now steal Hosts with great ease so that they can desecrate the Holy Eucharist in their black masses. KYRIE ELEISON." Fr. X.

I agree:   If you are not informed, you can be deceived by those who want to make their opinion your law.   

 

[Chiquitunga]

inperpetuity, thank you so much for that.... what a great explanation there from this priest!

 

I have been meaning to reply here, but at the same time did not want to debate. It would be a shame to see this thread closed, as it has turned out to be pretty interesting and information packed on different Carmels :like: I was searching for a good thread to link to respond in the Debate table, but cannot find any good ones not archived already. But here is a post I made in one last year, http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/111302-communion-in-hand-or-on-tounge-is-there-any-debate/?p=2216071

 

I would recommend especially watching the first few minutes of the one by the young man Gabriel regarding pieces of the Host remaining on one's hands. I am pretty sure I can remember brushing excess crumbs that remained on my hand on my clothes too .... :( pretty sure about that.. The Church does asks that the faithful receiving on the hand take precautions that no Sacred Particle be lost. Gabriel quotes this from a document, although I cannot remember which one. But he sums up this point pretty well here in the second part. 

 

I too knew of the early Christians receiving Our Lord on the hand, but it was done in a much different way as articulated well here by Bishop Athanasius Schneider (whole video is worth watching)

 

In my above statement then, I should have said, the re-introduction of Communion in the hand originated in disobedience, and was done so for years before being permitted. And as the holy priest (not extreme Traditionalist, btw) who told me this said, "God will not build anything on that foundation."

[Chiquitunga]

http://db.religiouslife.com/reg_life/irl.nsf/org/166

 

Praised be Jesus Christ! Now and forever. :)

Chiquitunga I have a question; the picture of the Sister's in this photo: do you know where in the Monastery they are? I just always thought this was a beautiful picture and was curious to know. I thought maybe the Chapel? It looks like a small Altar, but would that be inside the enclosure or the public Chapel?

 

I would guess it's a little oratory somewhere within the enclosure .. maybe where they placed their Infant Jesus statue, which is a replica of the original miraculous one in Grand Rapids (now Ada, pronounced aide-a :like: http://www.carmelitenuns.org/) 

 

It's definitely not in the nuns' choir nor the public chapel, as I have seen pictures of both. I should email you them! :) There was an article and several pictures in the Immaculate Heart Messenger magazine from 1997 when they were founded (I ordered a back issue and they still had a few left!) I have it all scanned in already, so I shall email you it. 

Edited December 8, 2012 by Chiquitunga

[Graciela]

I do not want to cause a stir or debate in response to inperpetuity's post but the priest and the encyclical she reports seem to dismiss a saint and doctor of the church, St. cyril of Jerusalem, as antiquarian and not really appreciative of the Real Presence. I feel some urge to point out that some of these early saints and doctors of the church write beautifully about the Eucharist and the reception of the Body and Blood of our Lord. Their devotion and faith were not deficient because the "how is Christ present?" question that St. Thomas Aquinas answered with the delineation of transubstantiation had not yet been debated and defined.

The church currently allows both means of receiving and so this priest's implication that receiving in the hand risks sacred particles being lost or satanists stealing hosts seems to imply that the magisterial decision to allow reception in hand is in error. I do share the concern that some who approach communion and receive in the hand are very casual about it and that much better catechesis is/was needed. That's way I liked St. Cyril's instructions about how to receive in the hand with one hand cupped beneath the other and moving both up to the mouth as a good examples of how to receive in the hand reverently and carefully.

[Chiquitunga]

Praised be Jesus Christ!!! First, I moved the conversation regarding receiving Holy Communion to this thread in the Debate Table :like: http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/111302-communion-in-hand-or-on-tounge-is-there-any-debate/?p=2525718

 

Second, I'm linking the Traverse City new chapel thread here - http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/124220-traverse-city-carmel-chapel-renovations/?p=2527332

 

Third .... Merry Christmas!!!

 

 

 

Mandaquin (sp?) statues from Mexico (as they call them there) of the Blessed Virgin and Infant Jesus on display in the public chapel for Christmas at Grand Rapids (Ada) Carmel - http://myjourneywithmary.blogspot.com/2012/01/recent-mary-sightings.html

 

I've seen them and they are so beautiful!!!!  :heart: The Extern called them "mandakin" statues (not "mannequin") and that they are from Mexico and are flexible so they can position them in different ways .. and they have a few others they put out at special feasts/times of the year.  

 

They also have the Miraculous Infant Jesus out in the public chapel for Christmas until the Epiphany every year too (separate from this one and kept in a glass case) which Mother Elias brought with her when she fled the persecutions, which is over 300 years old the Extern told me ... all very beautiful and inspiring!!! :saint:

 

Cristo Rey has statues like this from Mexico for their Nativity scene in the public chapel too

 

 

http://www.catholic-sf.org/ns.php?newsid=22&id=60849

 

Advent and Christmas season visitors will discover something new each time they stop in to visit the crèche at the Carmelite Monastery of Cristo Rey in San Francisco. The figures of Mary and Joseph, the shepherd and the wise men, are moved around, and animals are added throughout the season..

 

neat!!! 

 

btw, a few more pictures from there, http://web.stagram.com/location/902470 & http://campaigns.vocationnetwork.org/www/delivery/ai.php?filename=333box_3.gif&contenttype=gif

 

 

¡¡¡Feliz Navidad!!!   :harp: 

Edited December 26, 2012 by Chiquitunga

[VeniJesuAmorMi]

Praised be Jesus Christ, and Merry Christmas!

 

God reward you Chiquitunga for the post above. A beautiful one to see when I came back on here! The statue is beautiful. :heart:

 

I'm looking forward to seeing pictures (if and when any are posted) of the new Chapel in Traverse City! The description that they have on the site you posted (http://www.stroik.com/portfolio/monastery-of-the-infant-jesus-of-prague/) sounds wonderful.

 

Also just to add because its so beautiful to contemplate; One of the antiphons for Lauds in "The Little Office of The Blessed Virgin Mary" for Christmastide: "A wonderful mystery is declared today: new things are wrought in nature; God is made man. What He was He hath remained, and what He was not He hath assumed, suffering neither confusion nor division."

 

 

[Chiquitunga]

 

http://www.catholic-sf.org/ns.php?newsid=22&id=60849

 

Praised be Jesus Christ! another picture from Cristo Rey's nativity scene :heart:

 

[VeniJesuAmorMi]

I was wondering if anyone knows the correct mailing address for the Discalced Carmelite Nuns in Alexandria, South Dakota. I found three different ones online(which seems a bit strange:)

 

P.O Box 67

Alexandria, SD 57311

 

 

211 5th St
Alexandria, SD 57311
 

 

P.O Box 67 221 5th Street West

Alexandria, SD 57311

 

Thanks so much! :)

 

 

[Chiquitunga]

Oh, it's just that one is their Post Office Box and one their actual street address, the third one combined. I am sure if you send it to any of them, it'll get there, although I would go without option # 3 with both PO Box & street address, in case they don't have the PO Box any more. Also the newsletter I have from them (the one I emailed you :j) has this full address & it's printed on the envelope this way too  :like:

[Chiquitunga]

Happy Solemnity of the Epiphany of Our Lord! another picture from Grand Rapids Carmel :heart:

 

[VeniJesuAmorMi]

Happy Solemnity of the Epiphany of Our Lord! another picture from Grand Rapids Carmel :heart:

 

 

Those statues are so beautiful! Especially the one of Our Blessed Mother and baby Jesus. So precious. Do they make the outfits? Its just my guess that they do as a lot of communites I know of do this. :) May God reward you for sharing too!

Edited January 7, 2013 by VeniJesuAmorMi

[VeniJesuAmorMi]

Praised be Jesus Christ! :)

 

"Different monasteries take on a characteristically Carmelite aspect that is shaped by the individual sisters that make up the community in question." (quote about the Carmelite Order.)

 

This is something that I found doing some research and I found it interesting. It made me think again that it is said that when someone is called to Carmel it is to a certain monastery. I was wondering if anyone had any more thought or information about this quote. How does one really know then where they are supposed to be? I sometimes think that regarding this about Carmel that it could only be found out when you enter and not just through letters to Reverend Mother or even visits. Some say when they get to where they are supposed to be it just feels like home. Would this always be the case? What should someone be looking for when they are discerning with communities?

 

 

Edited January 10, 2013 by VeniJesuAmorMi

[nikita92]

Does it just have to be Carmel?

[VeniJesuAmorMi]

Does it just have to be Carmel?

 

No it certainly doesn't have to be. :) I was just wondering if anyone, wherever they have discerned, could share their experiences. Also, for those that are more learned on discernment with religious communities, or even spiritual direction that they have received, to give information or advise on the matter.

[emmaberry101]

No it certainly doesn't have to be. :) I was just wondering if anyone, wherever they have discerned, could share their experiences. Also, for those that are more learned on discernment with religious communities, or even spiritual direction that they have received, to give information or advise on the matter.

 

Hi VJAM! Yes, in my experience with the Poor Clares (but this holds true with most communities), you are called to a specific community.. So even if you and I both felt called to be Carmelites, we could not plan to join the same community just because we both felt called to Carmel. The likelihood is that we would end up in two separate communities!

 

This can be overwhelming to a discerner-as in, I just narrowed down my spirituality and now I have to find the one particular community I am called to? Could this be anymore difficult? But, really, most people who find their community will attest to the fact that it is amazing how much the Holy Spirit works to guide you there! It is definitely not like searching for a needle in a haystack.. Most people don't have to visit endless communities before they find where they are called.

 

Note, this is not true for the MCs and other Orders like them.