On The Topic Of Active Participation

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='BG45' timestamp='1337303383' post='2431999']
First I would like to apologize, David Haas wrote it. I mis-attributed it to Haugen.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDljPsRIryo[/media]
[/quote]

[Papist]

I am called to never watch that video again!!!!!

Ever!

[Noel's angel]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTMPifEhz3A[/media]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_Tf9qzqm7I&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_Tf9qzqm7I&feature=related[/url]

Edited May 19, 2012 by Noel's angel

[PhuturePriest]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1337319568' post='2432125']
Honey, I don't play kumbaya. Unfortunately, 95% of what I play was written by Protestants, because every Catholic publisher has only sought out garbage composers for the last fifty or more years.
[/quote]

I didn't say you did. I said that if you played it it would sound as good as Ave Maria. It's a compliment. I don't think I can stand one more Kumbaya in my life again anyway.

[Vincent Vega]

Well then i begrudgingly accept your compliment.

[PadrePioOfPietrelcino]

[quote name='Noel's angel' timestamp='1337445953' post='2432645']

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_Tf9qzqm7I&feature=related[/media]
[/quote]

Christmas ??? looks like the liturgy was given to this guy --->

[PadrePioOfPietrelcino]

THIS is active participation done correctly with dance in my opinion.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S6eP6kwgDI&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S6eP6kwgDI&feature=related[/url]

[Vincent Vega]

I like it! That said, if a parish in suburban Milwaukee were to attempt a similar liturgy, it would not only almost certainly fall on its face, but would also be wholly inappropriate.
For one thing, note that nobody is performing - their dancing/swaying is not for entertainment, but is something more akin to a posture. For instance, Eastern Christians would consider it wholly irreverent that we kneel in prayer on Sundays, as it seems to fly in the face of the celebration of the Risen Christ to them[sup]1[/sup]. Of course, we in the West consider it a reverent posture, one that allows us to reflect more deeply on the mysteries of Christ as well as give an outward side of our devotion to God. It, of course, would be frowned upon in the culture of the East, just as dancing as seen in the above would be looked down upon in the liturgy here.


[sup]1 De Corona Militis, Chapter 3 : "[color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3]We count fasting or kneeling in worship on the Lord’s day to be unlawful. We rejoice in the same privilege also from Easter to Whitsunday." [/size][/font][/color][url="http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Ante-Nicene_Fathers/Volume_III/Apologetic/The_Chaplet,_or_De_Corona/Chapter_III"]http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Ante-Nicene_Fathers/Volume_III/Apologetic/The_Chaplet,_or_De_Corona/Chapter_III[/url][/sup]

[TheresaThoma]

I agree with USAirways certain things that may be a wonderful part of one communities liturgies would be quite bad in another. Even within the same communities there may be differences in what is reverent and condusive to the Liturgy. For example when I was at my old University there were definite differences between the Sunday Mass which was held at the large on campus church and the small weekday Masses held in the various dorms. At the Sunday Mass we would do these amazing "big" pieces, but in the smaller setting of a dorm chapel we tended to stick with simpler, shorter, commonly known songs. Neither way was better than the other but just more fitted to that specific liturgy.

[franciscanheart]

I just want to say how moved I am by African music (most especially sung by natives). It touches me deeply. True joy!

ETA: I was watching the video again and noticed something. Starting at about 6 seconds in, you can see what I assume to be a sister (in blue and white) in the corner of the room sitting, praying). She exits the frame at about 12 seconds in. How beautiful!

[qfnol31]

[quote name='franciscanheart' timestamp='1337614828' post='2433237']
I just want to say how moved I am by African music (most especially sung by natives). It touches me deeply. True joy!

ETA: I was watching the video again and noticed something. Starting at about 6 seconds in, you can see what I assume to be a sister (in blue and white) in the corner of the room sitting, praying). She exits the frame at about 12 seconds in. How beautiful!
[/quote]I know some guys who went to a sacerdotal ordination for the Josephites, an African order of missionaries, and they said that the African music there was very impressive and well done. These are guys who hang out at the Extraordinary Form when they can, so that's very high praise. I kinda want to go to such a Mass sometime myself with more traditional African music, not the American version.

[TheoGrad07]

[quote name='qfnol31' timestamp='1337616753' post='2433239']
I know some guys who went to a sacerdotal ordination for the Josephites, an African order of missionaries, and they said that the African music there was very impressive and well done. These are guys who hang out at the Extraordinary Form when they can, so that's very high praise. I kinda want to go to such a Mass sometime myself with more traditional African music, not the American version.
[/quote]

When I was doing clean-up after Hurricane Katrina we went to a small, African parish for Mass. The music was very, very well done Gospel. It was most definitely a Catholic Mass and most definitely expressed the parish's joy & enthusiasm & faith using their "cultural language."

While it would be totally bizarre if a Caucasian choir attempted such a liturgy, it was quite impressive!

[TheoGrad07]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1337344193' post='2432159']
What am I missing about clapping being conditionally acceptable. Are there cultures that clapping is that integral in their lives? Even if so, I find it hard to understand that when converted to Catholicism and introduced to the Liturgy that clapping was part of the instruction. So when did this clapping originate? I don't dispute some clap reverently. Just b/c something is done reverently, then it is not problematic? I don't understand that. One can say the rosary very reverently during the Mass, yet it would be problematic.

That said, I leave this in the hands of my Mother, the Church, and obediently submit.
[/quote]

I think you're getting at the question of how intrinsically European Catholicism is ... obviously the Faith itself does not belong to one culture, but the Faith has certainly been expressed and handed down in primarily European ways for hundreds of years. How much of this expression is intrinsic to the Faith and only "accidentally" European? Or perhaps we could ask, how much did the Church shape culture or culture shape the Church? Making those distinctions is the (unenviable!) task of the Church and her theologians. An example I've been thinking about recently ... Western scholastic theology uses the philosophical framework inherited from Greece (primarily). Does this mean that theology cannot be expressed in, for example, Far Eastern philosophical terms? I don't think the Western philosophical framework is entirely "accidental" to the Faith, such that we could easily substitute Far Eastern philosophy instead. But does this mean we reject all Far Eastern philosophical expressions when explaining the Faith to such cultures? Hopefully not -- but it would take someone highly trained and well skilled to engage in such a discussion!