CreepyCrawler Posted May 15, 2004 Share Posted May 15, 2004 This may be dumb, but I'm not a theologian. Is believing in Christ considered a 'work' that gets salvation (to Protestants)? Why or why not? This is what I wonder: if you can't earn salvation and it's all God, then wouldn't everyone be saved simply because Christ died on the cross, regardless of what people believe (if believing is a verb, something humans do)? if you have to believe (do something) in order to be saved, then isn't that like salvation depends on human work? How do you see it? Please give a thorough explanation as if to a 3-year-old because my brain's turned to mush, ok? Thanks a lot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader_4 Posted May 15, 2004 Share Posted May 15, 2004 I have often wondered that myself but i have seemed to come to the personaly conclusion that it is not a work because it is intellecutal in nature....altho i am very interested to see what the Church has to say in this matter...Phatcatholic...dust? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreepyCrawler Posted May 15, 2004 Author Share Posted May 15, 2004 i don't know if i'd say it's intellectual, but it's internal. but loving your neighbor would be considered a work if you said that that's part of your salvation and that's internal, too, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader_4 Posted May 15, 2004 Share Posted May 15, 2004 Yea thats true its not really intellecutual (altho in a sense i think it not completley) iternal is probably a much better word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted May 15, 2004 Share Posted May 15, 2004 i think faith is more of a state of the soul that encompasses ones belief and ones actions and the entire way one lives their life. Faith is not merely belief. i could be wrong on that though. Pax Amorque Christi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader_4 Posted May 15, 2004 Share Posted May 15, 2004 Thats true i have never considered belief simply faith...however my question i have is the act of believeing since to believe is a verb would it therefore be defined as a work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted May 15, 2004 Share Posted May 15, 2004 it's a work in the way St. James used the word it's not a work in the way St. Paul used the word, i.e. works of the law Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twf Posted May 15, 2004 Share Posted May 15, 2004 Faith is a work...remember 'faith without works is dead'...and 'can such faith save you?'. True faith will always lead to works of charity. Even the initial decision to repent and to accept Christ is a work, in the sense that it is an act of the will, and takes a degree of effort. So yes, as a former Evangelical, I saw the flaws in Protestant reasoning. They accept that one must accept Christ, yet dogmatically teach that works can not be involved in us receiving salvation...yet based on that logic, all should be saved automatically. Either way, we must remember that we are not saved BECAUSE of faith, nor works...we are saved ONLY by Christ's grace...but we must accept this grace, and this acceptance starts with faith, which leads to other works. Our works are meaningless if they do not flow from God's grace, freely given to us. Our works can not earn our salvation, and neither can faith...they are simply the fruits of grace and our means of co-operating with God's plan of salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted May 15, 2004 Share Posted May 15, 2004 [quote name='CreepyCrawler' date='May 15 2004, 12:25 AM'] This may be dumb, but I'm not a theologian. Is believing in Christ considered a 'work' that gets salvation (to Protestants)? Why or why not? This is what I wonder: if you can't earn salvation and it's all God, then wouldn't everyone be saved simply because Christ died on the cross, regardless of what people believe (if believing is a verb, something humans do)? if you have to believe (do something) in order to be saved, then isn't that like salvation depends on human work? How do you see it? Please give a thorough explanation as if to a 3-year-old because my brain's turned to mush, ok? Thanks a lot! [/quote] For a true-blue Calvinist, you believe that you had no choice BUT to believe -- irresistible grace (the "I" part of TULIP). Even the capability to believe is of God and by his grace ... they'd say they had no choice in the matter, because without grace they'd say we are so depraved that we couldn't choose God. So either you are completely unable to choose salvation because of depravity, and are damned, or you are completely unable to resist God's grace and are saved. Keep in mind this isn't representative of all Protestant beliefs, only of those who can trace their beliefs back to John Calvin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs. Bro. Adam Posted May 15, 2004 Share Posted May 15, 2004 [quote name='CreepyCrawler' date='May 15 2004, 01:25 AM'] Is believing in Christ considered a 'work' that gets salvation (to Protestants)? Why or why not? This is what I wonder: if you can't earn salvation and it's all God, then wouldn't everyone be saved simply because Christ died on the cross, regardless of what people believe (if believing is a verb, something humans do)? if you have to believe (do something) in order to be saved, then isn't that like salvation depends on human work? How do you see it? Please give a thorough explanation as if to a 3-year-old because my brain's turned to mush, ok? Thanks a lot! [/quote] Replying from former Protestant life: We can do nothing to obtain salvation, although we do need to pray and ask God to forgive our sins and accept Him as our Savior. Protestants don't believe in 'good works' being a part of keeping salvation. They, however, believe that if a person is saved, then 'good works' will be a result of their faith. If you were to ask a Protestant how you can be saved, they would say that you need to accept Christ as your Savior. If you asked them if what they're doing is work, they'll say no, it's just receiving the gift that God is extending towards us. Works don't save us: [quote] Not by works which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us[/quote]. However, the fruit of your salvation should show. [quote] They will know you by your fruits[/quote] I'm not sure if this has answered your question, or helped at all, but I'll try to answer them better if want to ask me a question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreepyCrawler Posted May 15, 2004 Author Share Posted May 15, 2004 [quote name='Mrs. Bro. Adam' date='May 15 2004, 11:15 AM'] If you were to ask a Protestant how you can be saved, they would say that you need to accept Christ as your Savior. If you asked them if what they're doing is work, they'll say no, it's just receiving the gift that God is extending towards us. [/quote] but if we're required to do something, accepting a gift, then doesn't our salvation then depend on something WE do? that's what i don't get... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted May 15, 2004 Share Posted May 15, 2004 Salvation is not an automatic thing, it is something we choose to accept. Acceptance then, is a work. It is a cooperation with the grace God is trying to give us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreepyCrawler Posted May 17, 2004 Author Share Posted May 17, 2004 then how can you 'not be saved by works' if you're a protestant and believing is a work?... :thinking: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs. Bro. Adam Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 [quote name='CreepyCrawler' date='May 16 2004, 09:04 PM'] then how can you 'not be saved by works' if you're a protestant and believing is a work?... :thinking: [/quote] It's all in the mindset of thinking. Protestants don't think of 'accepting' the salvation and praying the 'sinners pray' as works. They see it as steps taken. I'm not sure how else to explain it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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