Joan Chittister Recommends Lcwr Secularize

[AccountDeleted]

It was just a matter of time, wasn't it? I don't know if this belongs in Debate Table (what is there to dabate about?) or Vocation Station but it might get more attention here.

Maybe Sr Chittister needs to secularize herself as well? Personally, I find her an embarrassment to Benedictine nuns.


[url="http://protectthepope.com/?p=5144"]http://protectthepope.com/?p=5144[/url]



[b] US women religious leadership group considers breakaway from Holy See[/b]

By Deacon Nick,on May 7th,2012


Sr Joan Chittister,the former president of the Leadership Conference of Women Religious [LCWR] has suggested that the group should breakaway from the Holy See by ‘disbanding canonically and re-forming as an unofficial interest group.

Chittister was responding to Pope Benedict appointing Archbishop Sartain,Bishop Blair and Bishop Paprocki to lead the reform of the dissenting group of women religious following the CDF report highlighting the group’s failure to uphold the doctrine of the Church.

Sr. Chittister’s comments further reveal the extent to which the group rejects the authority of the Magisterium and the nature of the Church:

‘If everything you do has to be approved by somebody outside,then you’re giving your chrism away,and you’re certainly demeaning the ability of women to make distinctions.’

Sr. Chittister joins another prominent US religious, Sister Simone Campbell,who also expressed her defiance of the Holy See when she said,”I don’t think the bishops have any idea of what they’re in for.’
Protect the Pope comment:That Sr. Chittister sees US bishops appointed by Pope Benedict to reform the LCWR as being outsiders reveals the depth of her alienation from the ecclesial nature of the Catholic Church. Obviously the LCWR see themselves as a church within the Church which is a nonsense. Maybe they are even deluded enough to see themselves as the true Church,all schismatics do to justify breaking the communion of the Church.

Tablet 28th April 2012 p. 27

[Strictlyinkblot]

Sad! I'll pray for them.

[Brother Adam]

Admitting you have a problem is a good first step.

[Basilisa Marie]

They need so many prayers. And it's really sad, because there are so many sisters affiliated with the LCWR that WANT to be doing the right thing, that WANT to be in line with Rome, and want to work with Archbishop Sartain. Or at least that's what some of the sisters that are part of the lower levels of the LCWR have told me.

The group isn't nearly as dissenting and ill-intentioned as the article wants to make it. The problem is that you've got a few bad eggs higher up that aren't doing their jobs the way they're supposed to. I know that no one actually wants to disband them. This sister isn't even their president anymore, so it's not entirely fair for the author of this article to paint her as a true representative of all of the LCWR.

[LaPetiteSoeur]

[quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1336481096' post='2428583']
They need so many prayers. [b]And it's really sad, because there are so many sisters affiliated with the LCWR that WANT to be doing the right thing, that WANT to be in line with Rome, and want to work with Archbishop Sartain. Or at least that's what some of the sisters that are part of the lower levels of the LCWR have told me. [/b]

The group isn't nearly as dissenting and ill-intentioned as the article wants to make it. The problem is that you've got a few bad eggs higher up that aren't doing their jobs the way they're supposed to. I know that no one actually wants to disband them. This sister isn't even their president anymore, so it's not entirely fair for the author of this article to paint her as a true representative of all of the LCWR.
[/quote]
QFT. The sisters I know just want to do their work and be one with the Church. They serve it humbly and pray while they wait for the leadership to figure everything out.

Too often in Catholic news sites, certain religious congregations are generalized to the extent that many believe that if a sister belongs to a certain order, she HAS to be a dissenting Catholic who hates the pope and the bishops. That is simply not true. There are around 50,000 sisters in the LCWR congregations. To generalize all of the faithful women in that bunch with the dissenting ones is a great disservice and can even be seen as cruel.

The sisters I work with are hurt by the allegations that just because their religious order is part of the LCWR that they are automatically vilified. They are confused because all they have ever done is be obedient and they are not pro-choicers (as many have called them).

[cmotherofpirl]

That woman is an embarrassment to anyone who claims to be Catholic. She has deluded herself and others into being schismatics and heretics.

Maybe if the select few leave, the good and holy sisters/nuns can step forward and reclaim their faith. She has NO right to speak for the whole group.

[Skinzo]

I hope it's true that not all of the LCWR is like her. I have watched this happen for forty years now and the average age of these sisters is 74. Russell Shaw was right when he said: "“Look at their median age,” Shaw said. “This is an issue that is going to be settled by actuarial tables, not theologians or canon lawyers.”

[url="http://mannaismayaadventure.com/2012/04/22/catholic-nuns-group-stunned-by-vatican-slap/"]http://mannaismayaadventure.com/2012/04/22/catholic-nuns-group-stunned-by-vatican-slap/[/url]

S.

[mantellata]

I personally think it would be fabulous if the LCWR went secular. Those Sisters who do not subscribe to LCWR teachings would no longer have an affiliation (I doubt convents could force members to have a secular affiliation) and the public would not get so confused as to the actual teaching of the Church. The CMSWR would then be the only liaison and advisory committee at Rome.

I also believe we are talking about more than just a few Sisters "at the top". This has been a problem for awhile.

[Papist]

The website's comment nailed it.

[quote]Protect the Pope comment:That Sr. Chittister sees US bishops appointed by Pope Benedict to reform the LCWR as being [u]outsiders[/u] reveals the depth of her alienation from the ecclesial nature of the Catholic Church. Obviously the LCWR see themselves as a church within the Church which is a nonsense. Maybe they are even deluded enough to see themselves as the true Church,all schismatics do to justify breaking the communion of the Church.[/quote]

I hope the assenting nuns of LCWR stand up and a proclaim they want to comply with the Holy See.

[dominicansoul]

I really hope the LCWR can be reformed. If the majority are not like its leadership, then why won't they change the leadership? This indifference towards authentic religious living has been going on since before the 1970s, its not something new...They need to take a stand like the Mother General of the Nashville Dominicans, Mother Marie William McGregor did back in 1970, when she pulled the Nashies out of the CMSW. But not before she gave a rousing speech at the last CMSW (the previous name of the LCWR) national assembly. She gently yet forcefully chastised her fellow Sisters for allowing the spirit of the ages to seep into their living of religious life. She recognized that the members of the CMSW were too willing to totally change the face of religious life, in a way that was alien to her beliefs as a religious sister. In a sense, Mother Marie recognized what could become of such a misinterpretation of the directives set forth in Vatican II. She could recognize the dangers of modernism, relativism and liberalism rearing its ugly head and wanted no part of it---and she said so in an act of charity---correcting their errors. Mother Marie, along with others with the same hearts and minds in God, created the Consortium Perfectae Caritatis. If the majority of the LCWR do not follow their leaders nonsense, than why have they had these women as their leaders with no resistance??? it makes absolutely no sense...

[Archaeology cat]

Praying for them

[fides' Jack]

It's just so sad - it makes me want to *cry.

She's basically saying that she recommends that all members of the LCWR go to hell. Theologically speaking, that's the end result of being separated from Rome. That's what she's looking for.

God have mercy on her and on everyone that she has led astray.

*Edit: (man-tears of intense pain, of course)

Edited May 8, 2012 by fides' Jack

[Groo the Wanderer]

going to the ER. had to bite my lip so hard i almost severed it

[Sister Marie]

This has been a generally good discussion so far and I'm really glad that people are taking it for what it is... one woman's opinion. Maybe you could entertain another?

I just would like to take this opportunity to redirect from all the fiery and emotional statements being made around the net, which surely Sister Joan's are as well, from each side of this issue. Obviously, this is a highly emotional time for ALL sisters - LCWR or not, and for the Church as a whole. We are living at a time in the Church where there is a lot; good and bad, happening. The Church is not a museum made to store all the beautiful artifacts of our faith but the living Body of Christ which must continually evolve and live with these changes within and from the world around us. The sex abuse scandal, Vatican II, the internet, the globalization of communication (just the fact that I can talk to all of you right now and we have never, that I know of, met!), women's rights, etc., have all affected us, the religious, as well as the laity. When our lives are framed this way, every faithful person has to find a way to "make sense" of the hypocrisies, dual-isms, changes, movements, and let-downs IN LIGHT OF our faith in Jesus and within the Church. This is no easy task! It takes a lot of time, a lot of searching, and sometimes a lot of pain. And not everyone gets it right all the time. There isn't always an easy answer in a book. Unfortunately, we cannot travel to the future and see what things will be like after we make a decision. We do the best with what we have and where we are and we sometimes fall.

I say all of this because I think, after reading many commentaries and many blogs and many different sources of news on this newest development, we need to think about what we hope the product is of this action by the Church?

Do we want to punish the religious we have judged to be "wrong"? If so, go ahead and post things about them going to hell. Write that they abandoned the Church. Write that they spit in the face of Christ. Write that they are not real religious. You will have produced the reaction you wanted but the sisters will be no closer to the Church.

Do we want these sisters to suffer for whatever sins we think they have committed? If so, then let's point out everything they do wrong and call them names and ignore any good they have ever done in the world.

You see, I don't really believe that anyone in the Church wants the above things! In my "making sense" of our problems and our struggles, I HAVE to believe that we all, the Church, want good things for one another. We love one another enough to do what we can to help one another.

So, if you belong in the group that I think most of you do, you want these sisters to be more of a part of our Church... you want them to feel the love of God within the Church and to be converted and transformed by this love... you want them to continue the good works they have been doing while working on their life... you want them to learn and to grow... you want them to be healed of whatever caused them to reject parts of their life before ...

If that is what you want, then the way to help is not to be a political activist, not to be a theologian who knows all the right answers, but to love. Tell them with your words and actions that they are vital to the life of the Church but not how they are now. Tell them that you are grateful for all the good they have done but that they need to rethink some of their theology. Tell them that you are grateful for the gift of their consecrated life but that you would love it if you could more easily see them. Tell them that the Church needs their charism but that it would make more of an impact if they lived and worked together. Tell them that you love and care for them as your sisters and you just want them to be closer to you in faith.

I went to a workshop one time where a sister said, "Talking at someone doesn't change them, experiences change people." An experience or many experiences and their responses made them the people they are today. Experiences are what will allow them to change and move again. The experience of a sister reading a blog that is trashing her community will not make her want to change. The experience of a sister reading a blog that states the above... that has potential for transformation and conversion.

On a practical note... I highly doubt the majority of communities would ever be willing to follow a secularization of LCWR. Remember LCWR doesn't govern individual communities - none of their members have to believe a thing they say and many don't believe most. However, they are a provider of resources (both practical and spiritual) so that is why many communities stay.

Anyway... I know I write too much (I've already been told!) but I was eager to just express both my thanks that this has been such a life-giving dialogue so far and to help shape it so that if a sister comes along she sees the love and care of the Church for her instead of condemnation. That includes Sister Joan.

[i]edited for sentence structure[/i]

Edited May 8, 2012 by Sister Marie

[Skinzo]

[quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1336488300' post='2428636']
I really hope the LCWR can be reformed. If the majority are not like its leadership, then why won't they change the leadership? This indifference towards authentic religious living has been going on since before the 1970s, its not something new...They need to take a stand like the Mother General of the Nashville Dominicans, Mother Marie William McGregor did back in 1970, when she pulled the Nashies out of the CMSW. But not before she gave a rousing speech at the last CMSW (the previous name of the LCWR) national assembly. She gently yet forcefully chastised her fellow Sisters for allowing the spirit of the ages to seep into their living of religious life. She recognized that the members of the CMSW were too willing to totally change the face of religious life, in a way that was alien to her beliefs as a religious sister. In a sense, Mother Marie recognized what could become of such a misinterpretation of the directives set forth in Vatican II. She could recognize the dangers of modernism, relativism and liberalism rearing its ugly head and wanted no part of it---and she said so in an act of charity---correcting their errors. Mother Marie, along with others with the same hearts and minds in God, created the Consortium Perfectae Caritatis. If the majority of the LCWR do not follow their leaders nonsense, than why have they had these women as their leaders with no resistance??? it makes absolutely no sense...
[/quote]

This is an excellent post as is the one just put up by Sister Marie with which I whole heartedly agree. But as Dominican Soul points out this has all been going on since before the seventies! And while I continue to hope the LCWR does not claim the broad support of women religious in the USA for its dissident positions, you really have to wonder why there are not more protests from the member communities? Why are not faithful sisters crying out against what has been going on for so long? And while I am sure everyone here hopes and prays the LCWR will reform , one does have to wonder as they seem rather hardened in their positions. I am old enough to remember the Immaculate Heart Sisters and their confrontation with Cardinal McIntyre in Los Angeles in 1967.
It's really very similar. And rather than bend to what the Church asked of them, the Immaculate Heart sisters then ended up leaving the Church entirely. Out of 600 sisters only 50 voted to accept the Vatican requests of them, 350 left to form a non-Catholic group, and 150 left religious life completely. I sometimes think how little has changed in forty years.

S.