Catechism Was Not Written To Please You.

[Papist]

[quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1335752573' post='2425043']
Yeah, like THAT line would have gone far in the era I was growing up in... what it would have gotten my generation was either a swift swat in the butt or a tongue-lashing that would make a marine drill sergeant cower in fear. No "Gee, Johhny, you're correct - kumbaya, now let's go make a banner".

What really happens is that sooner or later kids either will see the mixed signals and either not take the Church or their parents seriously (or both), fostering teen rebellion from which they may never recover and return to the Church, or they will realize that their parents are hypocrites, either when the parents try to use religion to discipline the kids, or when the kid actually tries to live out what he/she learns in Catholic school/religious education only to have the parents undo it at home, which is what Jesus prophesied when He stated He came to bring division and that family members would be set against each other.

Honestly, what are some parents thinking these days? If they want their kid to get a good Catholic education and foundation and have peace in the home and family, they need to be on the same page as the Church and be a good example to their kids, otherwise they are sabotaging their efforts and asking for trouble. That's all I was trying to get at.
[/quote]

In a nutshell, teachers can teach 2+2=4, but if they are learning 2+2=5 in the home, the child will grow up believing 2+2=5.

[Papist]

[quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1335828027' post='2425414']
Which is what I was trying to get at.

You see, one must also look at it from the point of a kid in religion class. He learns:

1) X, Y, and Z are mortal sins.
2) If you die with a mortal sin on your soul, you are going to hell.
3) Mommy and daddy are doing X, or Y, or Z, or a combination thereof, or other unmentionables.

The kid puts it all together logically and thinks in horror, "Oh no, mommy and daddy are going to hell!".
[/quote]

The same kid should also be learning about the Sacrament of Reconciliation and the hope in God's mercy, preferably at the same time.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1335828027' post='2425414']
Which is what I was trying to get at.

You see, one must also look at it from the point of a kid in religion class. He learns:

1) X, Y, and Z are mortal sins.
2) If you die with a mortal sin on your soul, you are going to hell.
3) Mommy and daddy are doing X, or Y, or Z, or a combination thereof, or other unmentionables.

The kid puts it all together logically and thinks in horror, "Oh no, mommy and daddy are going to hell!".
[/quote]Just kids in religion class? That [b]is[/b] what the Catholic Church teaches. Even adults look at loved ones, family, children, parents, and are being told since they aren't properly practicing Catholics, may get hit by a bus after masturbation, unable to leave an "improper marriage" because of kids, the problem of supporting yourself or even the fact you really have a great marriage, and be told they're going to hell because they aren't free from mortal sin. Makes no difference if you were Idi Amin, or if you're on your second marriage after a Catholic marriage and are a good person, raised 3 great kids, have been faithful to your second wife for 50 years, are kind and generous, you're going to hell.

[Lisa]

The Catholic Church does teach that certain actions are a mortal sin and can lead to hell. But most of the time (in my experience at least), neither the Catholic Church in its official writings nor most individuals often say you are going to hell directly. We don't make those judgements, because God's mercy is so much beyond ours. Even if a person has committed a mortal sin, God's mercy may still prevail; that's up to Him. However, even though we are completely reliant on His mercy, should the Church stop advising against sin? No.

[fides' Jack]

[quote name='Lisa' timestamp='1336058395' post='2426519']
The Catholic Church does teach that certain actions are a mortal sin and can lead to hell. But most of the time (in my experience at least), neither the Catholic Church in its official writings nor most individuals often say you are going to hell directly. We don't make those judgements, because God's mercy is so much beyond ours. Even if a person has committed a mortal sin, God's mercy may still prevail; that's up to Him. However, even though we are completely reliant on His mercy, should the Church stop advising against sin? No.
[/quote]

This is true. I do believe that God can choose to forgive someone even if that person has not made an act of perfect contrition.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='fides' Jack' timestamp='1336071541' post='2426586']
This is true. I do believe that God can choose to forgive someone even if that person has not made an act of perfect contrition.
[/quote]
Can God truly forgive someone who rejects his mercy? Or, rather, does He do so?

[Anomaly]

[quote name='fides' Jack' timestamp='1336071541' post='2426586']
This is true. I do believe that God can choose to forgive someone even if that person has not made an act of perfect contrition.
[/quote]Do you believe the C Church professes that, or is that like "limbo", a convenient contingency clause?

[fides' Jack]

I didn't say anything about somebody rejecting God's mercy. I believe people who go to hell choose that by rejecting God's mercy. God can't force people into heaven.

I believe the Church professes that for an individual soul, the only judge is God, because only God can possibly judge someone's soul. I think some people may be incapable of perfect contrition, but if they try hard enough, God might grant them His mercy, anyway.

What about limbo do you think is a convenient contingency clause?

[Anomaly]

[quote name='fides' Jack' timestamp='1336076178' post='2426616']
What about limbo do you think is a convenient contingency clause?
[/quote]LOL. Start a thread on Debate and ask if Limbo is an official Church teaching.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='fides' Jack' timestamp='1336076178' post='2426616']
I didn't say anything about somebody rejecting God's mercy. I believe people who go to hell choose that by rejecting God's mercy. God can't force people into heaven.

I believe the Church professes that for an individual soul, the only judge is God, because only God can possibly judge someone's soul. I think some people may be incapable of perfect contrition, but if they try hard enough, God might grant them His mercy, anyway.
[/quote]
This doesn't make any sense. If they were imperfectly contrite and neglected the sacrament of reconciliation or were not contrite at all, then they are rejecting God's mercy.

[PhuturePriest]

[quote name='fides' Jack' timestamp='1335977200' post='2426092']
First off - nice Aeris avatar! At least that's what it looks like.

I think you're right about the intent to go to confession as soon as possible. Again, that seems to me to be indicative of the idea that we can't know for sure whether we have perfect contrition. I meant that I don't think the Church teaches that it's absolutely required to go to confession before receiving, if an act of perfect contrition has been made. Of course, the only occasions that come to mind that warrant this are when near death and no priest is available. (in which case it's still probably better to not receive - imo)

I've never heard that about when we should try an act of perfect contrition. In fact, I've heard that we should try it every time we commit a mortal sin - just in case.
[/quote]

As Father Vincent Serpa O.P. told me: "The problem with perfect contrition is that we can never know if we have it. We simply put ourselves before the Lord and His mercy. THIS is why the sacrament of reconciliation is so beautiful."

[thessalonian]

While the Catechism may not have been written with the express purpose of pleasing people I somewhat disagree. For those who are accepting of the Catholic faith it is very pleasing. When I contemplate the truths in it I am very pleased. When I go against it's teachings I may get a moment of pleasure but in the end am very displeased with myself. True pleasure comes from the teachings of the Catholic Church.

[fides' Jack]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1336078130' post='2426630']
LOL. Start a thread on Debate and ask if Limbo is an official Church teaching.
[/quote]

Yeah, I know - but I just wanted to hear it from you...

[fides' Jack]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1336078142' post='2426632']
This doesn't make any sense. If they were imperfectly contrite and neglected the sacrament of reconciliation or were not contrite at all, then they are rejecting God's mercy.
[/quote]

Not necessarily. You can't think of any way that they could be imperfectly contrite and not go to confession, and not be rejecting God's mercy? Just use a little imagination.

[fides' Jack]

[quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1336078634' post='2426637']
As Father Vincent Serpa O.P. told me: "The problem with perfect contrition is that we can never know if we have it. We simply put ourselves before the Lord and His mercy. THIS is why the sacrament of reconciliation is so beautiful."
[/quote]

I entirely agree.