Causes Of Homosexuality?

[Autumn Dusk]

its true that everything is sexualized. My boyfriend was thought gay for a looooong time because he loathed football and auto racing but liked Shakespere. It didn't matter he also liked video games and baseball...

For girls I think its less taboo to have non-artistic interests than ever before, though I suppose it still might turn some heads and make people think "homosexual" to have a female auto mechanic....moresoe than a male nurse. (nursing was an innately female job until recently)

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

[quote name='MissyP89' timestamp='1335672698' post='2424659']
Some people do choose it willingly. But the vast majority of those that struggle with SSA don't choose to feel the way they do.
[/quote]

No one chooses the desire to sin, it comes in to beat the house owner and steal what virtue one has kind of like home invasion. Lust is no different from gluttony in it's essence or pride or envy or greed for material wealth etc etc. Thats what i rekon anyway. In the heat of the momment one can choose to fight, flight or be overcome.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

ICE_NINE gets a golden star, honesty gets us half way to heaven and possibly the listener too, i relate to alot of what you have said and it was very healing to read your take on such disordered views of self,i too have such twisted attacks that can indefinately lead me to sin paticularily lust and mind altering substances. And am working through this with christ, God bless you always

JESUS is LORD

P.s. I believe honesty helps us in christs redemtive mission. Gracious thanks.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye

[Socrates]

[quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1335672343' post='2424658']
All I know is that I am heterosexual and not a scientist. Therefore I'm not qualified to make judgments about the causes of homosexuality. What I do know is that no matter how it's "caused", people demand love, respect and compassion.
[/quote]
No matter how it's "caused," homosexuality remains gravely immoral, and inclinations toward it gravely disordered.

The endless (and largely fruitless [no pun intended]) "nature vs. nurture" debates over the causes of homosexual tendencies tend to act as a red herring which distracts from the central moral issues involved.

The "root causes" of homosexual tendencies are no doubt as complex and various as the causes of tendencies towards violence, drunkenness, gluttony, sexual promiscuity, other sex perversions, thievery, or any of countless other vices and disorders. And we must conclude that the ultimate "root cause" of all disordered tendencies toward sin and vice is the concupiscence resulting from original sin.

While I don't think anyone here is advocating Westboro Baptist-style croutons, it does not show true love, respect, or compassion to anybody to pretend as though homosexuality is a-ok.

[Basilisa Marie]

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1336004571' post='2426276']
No matter how it's "caused," homosexuality remains gravely immoral, and inclinations toward it gravely disordered.

The endless (and largely fruitless [no pun intended]) "nature vs. nurture" debates over the causes of homosexual tendencies tend to act as a red herring which distracts from the central moral issues involved.

The "root causes" of homosexual tendencies are no doubt as complex and various as the causes of tendencies towards violence, drunkenness, gluttony, sexual promiscuity, other sex perversions, thievery, or any of countless other vices and disorders. And we must conclude that the ultimate "root cause" of all disordered tendencies toward sin and vice is the concupiscence resulting from original sin.

While I don't think anyone here is advocating Westboro Baptist-style croutons, it does not show true love, respect, or compassion to anybody to pretend as though homosexuality is a-ok.
[/quote]

I never intended to imply that a homosexual lifestyle is a-ok. And it's not homosexuality that's immoral - it's the actions that are, and the desires that are disordered.

Most of the people I talk to that have SSA and know lots of Catholics are keenly aware of a common double standard. Everyone likes to talk about how immoral homosexual actions are, but not everyone puts the same energy into calling heterosexuals to chastity. Maybe that's just because I just spent four years on a Catholic college campus. In my experience it seems that most people who live a homosexual lifestyle are very aware of the Catholic Church's position on homosexual acts, but aren't aware that we're supposed to treat them in a way that reflects their inherent human dignity and that fact that they too are created in the Image and likeness of God.

[Spem in alium]

As mentioned above by others, I can't really answer the question of causes. People advocate a few, and I guess it's hard to be sure if one, like myself, is not well-informed or educated in such matters.

In my country, there's currently a lot of talk and debate going on about legalising same-sex marriage. It's really brought homosexuality into the spotlight and not only broadcast it as "normal", but made it something to be discussed and questioned. I await the day when the activism and feelings of a protected minority can be discussed rationally. I support kindness and love, but such a legislation involves neither.

I often find myself thinking of and praying for people who battle with homosexuality and religion. To reconcile the two would be hard for some. Recently I was speaking with one of my friends (who is Opus Dei) who told me that one of his brothers is bisexual, but with a stronger attraction to men. He seemed quite bitter and unsupportive, which struck me as sad. I do wonder about my friend's brother, and how his deeply religious famiily would be reacting to such news. Of course, it's hard to support something you don't agree with, but if people who reveal they are SSA do not receive sentiments of kindness from even their families then how can they truly receive it from others?

And this:
[quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1336005809' post='2426293']
Most of the people I talk to that have SSA and know lots of Catholics are keenly aware of a common double standard. Everyone likes to talk about how immoral homosexual actions are, but not everyone puts the same energy into calling heterosexuals to chastity. [/quote]

is a great point. We can't have double standards like this. It's not fair on anyone, and it compromises any hope of having a rational argument.

Edited May 6, 2012 by Spem in alium

[Kia ora]

Maybe it's just me, but the sort of loving advice that's offered to people struggling with their sexuality seems to be limited to just that demographic of people who are [i]struggling[/i] with their sexuality. They may be told by people around them that their sexual desires are indicative of something wrong with them and believe it themselves, which is why it helps for heterosexual people to say that everyone is fighting the same fight, against sin in all its various forms and so they don't have to feel so lonely fighting SSA.

But for a person who doesn't think that SSA is wrong, which comprises a huge chunk of the homosexual community, what advice could you possibly give them aside from convincing them that they're wrong? How can you be loving and respectful then?

[Basilisa Marie]

[quote name='Kia ora' timestamp='1336296232' post='2427596']
But for a person who doesn't think that SSA is wrong, which comprises a huge chunk of the homosexual community, what advice could you possibly give them aside from convincing them that they're wrong? How can you be loving and respectful then?
[/quote]

If you start by treating them like a decent human being, they're more likely to listen when you tell them why you don't believe homosexual actions are immoral. If you start out with the doomhammer of Truth, you're more likely to be written off as a stupid jerk by people who embrace the lifestyle.

[Amppax]

[quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1336335491' post='2427726']
...when you tell them why you don't believe homosexual actions are immoral.
[/quote]

I do not think this says what you meant it to say.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1336005809' post='2426293']
I never intended to imply that a homosexual lifestyle is a-ok. And it's not homosexuality that's immoral - it's the actions that are, and the desires that are disordered.[/quote]
Sorry, I didn't intend to imply that you implied that. I was merely clarifying that there are two sides to the coin - speaking truth in charity, and all that. I'm talking about a set of behaviors here when I say that homosexuality is immorality. That's why I distinguish behavior from tendencies. Any kind of acting on these disordered tendencies is sinful.

[quote]Most of the people I talk to that have SSA and know lots of Catholics are keenly aware of a common double standard. Everyone likes to talk about how immoral homosexual actions are, but not everyone puts the same energy into calling heterosexuals to chastity. Maybe that's just because I just spent four years on a Catholic college campus. In my experience it seems that most people who live a homosexual lifestyle are very aware of the Catholic Church's position on homosexual acts, but aren't aware that we're supposed to treat them in a way that reflects their inherent human dignity and that fact that they too are created in the Image and likeness of God.[/quote]
I don't think anyone on here was preaching a double standard. I don't know what Catholic college you went to, but at the Catholic college I attended (Christendom), there was no double standard evident in teaching or standards of conduct. In fact, most of the teaching and rules of campus life regarding sexual morality was focused on heterosexual behavior. Being a very conservative Catholic school, I think the immorality of homosexual behavior was more taken for granted.

And unfortunately, nowadays homosexuality has become increasingly politicized and at the center of policy debate ("gay marriage," etc.) in a way that "straight" sins are not (though this is changing with all the HHS contraception mandate and surrounding debate). So it comes up in debate here more than other sexual sins. Of course, we would not be dealing with all this "gay rights" nonsense, if "heterosexual" forms of immorality had not already become so widely accepted and ubiquitous in society. For whatever reason, you don't find as many people on this site advocating immorality such as fornication, adultery, porn, prostitution, etc. as you will advocating "gay rights." I don't think anyone on here promotes a double standard with regard to sexual morality. Those who oppose homosexuality also support the other moral teachings of the Church.

And the sad truth is that there are a lot of liberal "Christians," both "Catholic" and Protestant, promoting confusion and false teaching on the matter of homosexuality. Just look at the absurd pretzel-like twistings of Scripture used to justify homosexual immorality on that constantly-sited "religious tolerance" website, or the billboards claiming that Jesus blessed homosexual "relationships."

Edited May 6, 2012 by Socrates

[organwerke]

Graham Green in his book "Journey without maps" (that deals about his journey in Africa) noticed that homosexuality didn't exist in native populations while he found examples of it in the big cities where the Western World has arrived...
this is curious!

[Basilisa Marie]

[quote name='Amppax' timestamp='1336337965' post='2427737']
I do not think this says what you meant it to say.
[/quote]

BAH! CRUD! STUPID NEGATIVES!

I swear I'm not a heretic. I meant "when you tell them that you don't believe homosexual actions are MORAL."

[Socrates]

[quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1336346919' post='2427798']
BAH! CRUD! STUPID NEGATIVES!

I swear I'm not a heretic. I meant "when you tell them that you don't believe homosexual actions are MORAL."
[/quote]
I sentence thee to the Comfy Chair!

[Basilisa Marie]

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1336341464' post='2427751']
Sorry, I didn't intend to imply that you implied that. I was merely clarifying that there are two sides to the coin - speaking truth in charity, and all that. I'm talking about a set of behaviors here when I say that homosexuality is immorality. That's why I distinguish behavior from tendencies. Any kind of acting on these disordered tendencies is sinful.


I don't think anyone on here was preaching a double standard. I don't know what Catholic college you went to, but at the Catholic college I attended (Christendom), there was no double standard evident in teaching or standards of conduct. In fact, most of the teaching and rules of campus life regarding sexual morality was focused on heterosexual behavior. Being a very conservative Catholic school, I think the immorality of homosexual behavior was more taken for granted.

And unfortunately, nowadays homosexuality has become increasingly politicized and at the center of policy debate ("gay marriage," etc.) in a way that "straight" sins are not (though this is changing with all the HHS contraception mandate and surrounding debate). So it comes up in debate here more than other sexual sins. Of course, we would not be dealing with all this "gay rights" nonsense, if "heterosexual" forms of immorality had not already become so widely accepted and ubiquitous in society. For whatever reason, you don't find as many people on this site advocating immorality such as fornication, adultery, porn, prostitution, etc. as you will advocating "gay rights." I don't think anyone on here promotes a double standard with regard to sexual morality. Those who oppose homosexuality also support the other moral teachings of the Church.

And the sad truth is that there are a lot of liberal "Christians," both "Catholic" and Protestant, promoting confusion and false teaching on the matter of homosexuality. Just look at the absurd pretzel-like twistings of Scripture used to justify homosexual immorality on that constantly-sited "religious tolerance" website, or the billboards claiming that Jesus blessed homosexual "relationships."
[/quote]

Fair points. You're right - I don't see this double standard on here, for sure. It's mostly in the "real world." I went to Mount St. Mary's, and they don't have as many guidelines concerning behavior as Christendom does. I'm also thinking about what we hear priests and bishops talking about. Plus the US has something like 2/3 of the world's annulments. I don't know, maybe I'm linking symptoms together that shouldn't be. Sometimes I just wonder if all of the strong voices against gay marriage from our church leaders ends up making much of a difference, and I wonder if some energy might also be spent really building up the domestic church.

[cappie]

[quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1336347648' post='2427807']
Fair points. You're right - I don't see this double standard on here, for sure. It's mostly in the "real world." I went to Mount St. Mary's, and they don't have as many guidelines concerning behavior as Christendom does. I'm also thinking about what we hear priests and bishops talking about. Plus the US has something like 2/3 of the world's annulments. I don't know, maybe I'm linking symptoms together that shouldn't be. Sometimes I just wonder if all of the strong voices against gay marriage from our church leaders ends up making much of a difference, and I wonder if some energy might also be spent really building up the domestic church.
[/quote]

There is today a crucial need for more rigorous training in questions of sacramental and moral discipline within the Church. Perhaps never have the members of the Church with them less understanding of the teaching of the Church; and, for sure, never have they possessed more power to broadcast their misunderstandings of the teachings of the Church to others, this, to their detriment, of course, but also to the Church’s. + + +