Homophobic? Maybe You’re Gay

[MissyP89]

Papist, a question (no debate intended here): if a person with SSA believes that a Catholic loves and accepts them, is that an indicator that the Catholic isn't being clear enough about their position?

It seems to me that if we speak the truth, they're going to get upset. So if they're not upset, we're doing something "wrong."

Apologies if this post is unclear. I'm having a hard time expressing what I mean...

Edited April 29, 2012 by MissyP89

[Norseman82]

What's next - concluding God is gay because He set forth anti-homosexual standards in the Bible?

[BG45]

[quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1335728971' post='2424855']
What's next - concluding God is gay because He set forth anti-homosexual standards in the Bible?
[/quote]

Actually I can't link to it here, but that's already been said. In fact there are entire fiction communities dedicated to writing about Jesus and His disciples engaging in homosexual sex.

[BigJon16]

[quote name='MissyP89' timestamp='1335728410' post='2424849']
Papist, a question (no debate intended here): if a person with SSA believes that a Catholic loves and accepts them, is that an indicator that the Catholic isn't being clear enough about their position?

It seems to me that if we speak the truth, they're going to get upset. So if they're not upset, we're doing something "wrong."

[/quote]

We can still "speak the Truth" with compassion and love.

John Paul II once said: "Do not accept anything as the truth if it lacks love, And do not accept anything as love which lacks truth! One without the other becomes a destructive lie."

From Chris Stefnick's book, [i]Absolute Relativism: The New Dictatorship and what to do about it[/i]:

[quote]
Jesus did accept people as they were, but he also challenged them to change their lives. These two aspects of His ministry stand in contradiction only if you fail to grasp what motivated his interactions with others: Love.

Jesus Christ was so welcoming that it shocked the people of his day and would probably scandalize some of his followers today. He ate and drank with sinners. In other words, he was able to hang out with completely non-religious people without scaring them away.

On the other hand, Jesus was also extremely challenging to those he welcomed. Like any religious leader throughout history, Jesus invited people to to live in a certain way.

Jesus Christ loved everyone enough to accept them as they were. Immoral behavior being as damaging as it is, he also loved them too much to let them stay that way.

Jesus taught his followers to do as He did: to welcome everyone but also teach about sin, since love demands warning people about what can hurt them.

[/quote]


We must approach the questions of this time--questions like abortion, homosexuality, and other immoral things--with both Truth and Love.


As Catholic Christians, we know the Truth, and so we must make it known to people who live lives of sin, but we must do it out of Love, not out of pride of "being right" or anger towards a psychological phenomena.

"To share the truth about Christ effectively, you have to truly love people--not just loving them so that they might convert but wanting their conversion because you love them..." (Chris Stefanick. Also taken from the book mentioned above.)

[4588686]

[quote name='Luigi' timestamp='1335714453' post='2424754']
I did read the article. I find it meaningless. If they published an article that said "It might rain tomorrow," my reaction would be the same - "and it might not."[/QUOTE]

I was referring instead to your comment which seemed to imply that the results were based on Freudism.

[QUOTE] Additionally, I question their methodology. The efficacy of subliminal suggestion is still disputed, so I question their claim that their experiment "reliably distinguishes" true sexual identity from stated sexual identity. [/QUOTE]

By who?

[QUOTE]Their results show a discrepancy between real sexual identity and stated sexual identity of "over 20%" - but they don't say how much over. Can I assume 'just over'? 'Approximately'? Good researchers would tell you, not let you assume.

The 20% in the discrepancy group were "more likely" to be harsher toward homosexuals. How much more likely? Are we talking 50% of 20%?[/QUOTE]

Ok, so the only methodological objections that you can raise would be regarding their use of [color=#000000][font=georgia,][size=1][size=4]semantic association to gauge true sexual orientation. Which may be perfectly valid. I don't know. The above request for sources was earnest. But the rest is just you kicking up dust. You know perfectly well that this was not the study, this is a highly abbreviated presentation of the actual study to the popular press. If you want to find out exactly how much more than 20% that would be pretty easy to discover. [/size][/size][/font][/color]

[QUOTE] And even if the results [i]are[/i] valid, so what? Is the implication that we should disregard the anti-homosexual stance of those who are secretly homosexual? Is their stance tainted or invalidated by the fact that they have a direct connection & involvement with the question? If anything, that should strengthen the validity of their opinions. Perhaps they see the negative consequences more clearly than those who aren't connected & involved, and struggle to do something about it in much the same way that a diabetic might fight to have hidden sugars removed from processed foods, an alocholic might work to get liquor stores out of the neighborhood, or a reformed smoker might campaign to limit smoking in public places. [/QUOTE]

This is ridiculous. Having hidden sugars removed is different from having sugar removed full stop because you have a secret yearning for sugar.

[QUOTE] It's basically an ad hominem attack - if I can figure out your background and who you (really, truly, secretly) are, I can rationalize my way to ignoring your position. But true argumentation looks at reasons, not who is speaking the reasons.
[/quote]

No, it's not. You're adding conclusions that the authors do not draw and then attacking them for those very assertions that they did not make. The paper says that *obviously* this does not mean that if someone opposes gay rights then they themselves are gay. It only suggests that there is an empirical basis to the long observed fact that a not insignificant subset of those most vocal anti-gay political voices to be caught on their knees in some mens room somewhere.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Hasan

[Jaime]

I have arachnophobia...



I'm a little concerned.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='jaime' timestamp='1335734929' post='2424907']
I have arachnophobia...



[/quote]I think you should come out of the closet and start dating African-American women who's husbands have died.

[Papist]

[quote name='MissyP89' timestamp='1335728410' post='2424849']
Papist, a question (no debate intended here): if a person with SSA believes that a Catholic loves and accepts them, is that an indicator that the Catholic isn't being clear enough about their position?

It seems to me that if we speak the truth, they're going to get upset. So if they're not upset, we're doing something "wrong."

Apologies if this post is unclear. I'm having a hard time expressing what I mean...
[/quote]

I think I know what you mean. If I do, the answer to your question is no. I am not talking person, but behavior. We are called to love the person, but we are not called to love the behavior. Someone with SSA(living a homosexual lifestyle) can know you love him at the same time understand you do not accept his behavior.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1335735125' post='2424912']
I think you should come out of the closet and start dating African-American women who's husbands have died.
[/quote]

It took me a few seconds, but I figured out the reference.....

[MissyP89]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1335735869' post='2424916']
I think I know what you mean. If I do, the answer to your question is no. I am not talking person, but behavior. We are called to love the person, but we are not called to love the behavior. Someone with SSA(living a homosexual lifestyle) can know you love him at the same time understand you do not accept his behavior.
[/quote]

This is fair. I'm still trying to find that tender balance between completely avoiding the issue entirely (wrong) and sitting people down and saying they're participating in something gravely disordered, etc. ad nauseum (unwise, if you're hoping to open their heart).

I'd been convinced in the early years of my reversion that unless you were out there stating explicitly that xyz was a mortal sin and they needed to repent, you somehow weren't "doing enough."

I'm probably getting a bit off-topic here. In general, I'm trying to relearn what exactly it means, in practice, to love and speak the truth as such.

Edited April 29, 2012 by MissyP89

[4588686]

[quote name='MissyP89' timestamp='1335737066' post='2424932']
This is fair. I'm still trying to find that tender balance between completely avoiding the issue entirely (wrong) and sitting people down and saying they're participating in something gravely disordered, etc. ad nauseum (unwise, if you're hoping to open their heart).

I'd been convinced in the early years of my reversion that unless you were out there stating explicitly that xyz was a mortal sin and they needed to repent, you somehow weren't "doing enough."

I'm probably getting a bit off-topic here. In general, I'm trying to relearn what exactly it means, in practice, to love and speak the truth as such.
[/quote]

I started the thread and I don't care. Maybe dUst or the mods do, and obviously their feelings take priority, but don't stay on topic on my account.

[MissyP89]

Oh, I didn't think it was a super big deal. I just felt myself drifting off on a tangent.

[Jaime]

[quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1335736328' post='2424922']
It took me a few seconds, but I figured out the reference.....
[/quote]

help a brother out then

[Luigi]

[quote name='jaime' timestamp='1335848955' post='2425546']
help a brother out then
[/quote]

Black widows.

[r2Dtoo]

Black widows have such pretty hourglasses on the bellies. Useful for avoiding them, which you want to do. Trust me.