Defending Traditional Marriage. Please Help! Urgent!

[Basilisa Marie]

[quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1335728813' post='2424854']
And how many people who say they are called to be single are making those "private promises" or "special consecrations" - FOR LIFE? Because that is one of the characteristics of a state of life vocation - it is permanent.



According to CCC 1603, the vocation everyone is born with is hetersexual marriage. That is our purpose, unless one receives a call to one of the "celibate vocations", i.e., priestly ministry or consecrated life.

And I am not derogatory toward women; I am derogatory toward heretics who use false teaching to try to make life difficult for those who are trying to achieve the vocation that God wrote into their very nature.
[/quote]

Ummm...I'm inclined to disagree with your interpretation of 1603. It says:

[quote][color=#202020][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3][background=rgb(251, 250, 248)]"The intimate community of life and love which constitutes the married state has been established by the Creator and endowed by him with its own proper laws. . . . God himself is the author of marriage."[/background][/size][/font][/color][sup]87[/sup][color=#202020][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3][background=rgb(251, 250, 248)] The vocation to marriage is written in the very nature of man and woman as they came from the hand of the Creator. Marriage is not a purely human institution despite the many variations it may have undergone through the centuries in different cultures, social structures, and spiritual attitudes. These differences should not cause us to forget its common and permanent characteristics. Although the dignity of this institution is not transparent everywhere with the same clarity,[/background][/size][/font][/color][sup]88[/sup][color=#202020][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3][background=rgb(251, 250, 248)] some sense of the greatness of the matrimonial union exists in all cultures. "The well-being of the individual person and of both human and Christian society is closely bound up with the healthy state of conjugal and family life."[/background][/size][/font][/color][sup]89[/sup][/quote]

I thought this says that marriage is written into the nature of humans...not that every human is first called to marriage and then gets a different call later on if they're chosen.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1335736436' post='2424924']
Ummm...I'm inclined to disagree with your interpretation of 1603. It says:



I thought this says that marriage is written into the nature of humans...not that every human is first called to marriage and then gets a different call later on if they're chosen.
[/quote]

Of course it does. 2+2=4 means 4-2=2.

It says the [i]vocation[/i] to marriage is placed into our nature, so yes, one must look at it as the default vocation (even though the CCC does not use the word 'default") until one receives a calling to one of the celibate vocations, i.e., "virginity for the sake of the kingdom", which is further defined as "priestly ministry" and "consecrated life". Why do you think that the celibate vocations are considered a "higher calling"? Because they are a "supernatural" rather than "natural" vocation, and as such require supernatural graces.

It's ironic that you quoted the last sentence regarding how the healthy state of the individual and society "is closely bound with the healthy state of conjugal and family life". How are we going to have ANY conjugal/family life - let alone a "healthy" one - if we deny that it is the natural vocation and say we have to await further permission from God to get married to someone of the OPPOSITE GENDER? He already gave permission to us by placing it in our nature! (As long as we don't have any impediments, that is).

Edited April 29, 2012 by Norseman82

[Annie12]

I just posted a link to a catholic answers page about Gay Marraige on my facebook because I think a lot of people think I'm a homophobe right now. I feel like people twisted my argument and made it sound like I was saying things I wasn't. I hope this will clear things up and not create more problems. I hope Going back to school tomorrow won't be painfull. Prayers Please.

[Jesus_lol]

I think if you cant articulately convey why you believe in something, you should maybe spend more time thinking about why you believe it, and less time trying to convince others of your opinion.

[Annie12]

I just don't like looking like a homaphobe when in fact I am not.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Annie12' timestamp='1335786940' post='2425143']
I just don't like looking like a homaphobe when in fact I am not.
[/quote]

Unfortunately, that is the battle cry of that the other side uses to silence debate on the issue. I just learn to ignore it.

On a side note, a Phatmasser who used to post more often - Ironmonk - once used the term "moralphobe" to describe those who would hurl the accusation "homophobe" at us.

[Papist]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1335743864' post='2424983']
I think if you cant articulately convey why you believe in something, you should maybe spend more time thinking about why you believe it, and less time trying to convince others of your opinion.
[/quote]

Perhaps you can help her, rather than berating her.

[Groo the Wanderer]

moralphobe! LOVE IT

[4588686]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1335877885' post='2425610']


Perhaps you can help her, rather than berating her.
[/quote]

He did. He gave her some great advice.

[Annie12]

[MissyP89]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1335877885' post='2425610']
Perhaps you can help her, rather than berating her.
[/quote]

I speak Jlol's language, and I don't think there was any condescension in his comment. Not this time, anyway.

[Papist]

[quote name='MissyP89' timestamp='1335908617' post='2425790']
I speak Jlol's language, and I don't think there was any condescension in his comment. Not this time, anyway.
[/quote]

If I read it wrong, I apologize. But it did come off very cold and condescending, at least to me.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1335877885' post='2425610']
Perhaps you can help her, rather than berating her.
[/quote]

Well, considering i disagree with her argument, I dont see how I could give her much help arguing it. I thought it better to stay out of that area of discussion. I like playing Devils advocate as much as anyone else, but there are more than enough people here who agree with her to help.

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1335910314' post='2425805']
If I read it wrong, I apologize. But it did come off very cold and condescending, at least to me.
[/quote]

That, sir, is because i dont use smileys much in my posts anymore. Everything comes off a bit cold. But no that was just advice, not an insult. Missy, as always is right.



for missy

[MissyP89]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1335919276' post='2425862']
Missy, as always is right.
[/quote]

And don't you dare forget it. By the way, as long as I am always right, you need to hurry up on the whole becoming Catholic thing. And the marrying Peyton thing. Get on that. Thanks.