Defending Traditional Marriage. Please Help! Urgent!

[4588686]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1335599755' post='2424316']
B/c you are saying there are to be restrictions. This happens to be the case today b/c today I am not allowed to marry my sister, which is discrimatory.
[/quote]


I guess I missed me doing that. Which restrictions did I announce?

[4588686]

[quote name='mortify' timestamp='1335636081' post='2424406']
Homosexuality is unnatural because its a disorder that runs contrary to nature.
[/quote]

Interesting. Maybe if you restate your claim yet again then that will suddenly count as evidence or argument.

[4588686]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1335618085' post='2424337']
Just because it occurs in NAture, doesn't make it normal or ideal. No matter how hard a gay couple tries, they can't conceive with just the two of them. There are species that change gender in certain circumstances do they can procreate. Humans ain't one of them. Normal/natural is one of each gender mate and raise offspring.

[/quote]

No, it's not. That is the norm. But homosexuality occurs in other species. Homosexuality is not the numerical norm but it is natural and there are a few theories out there as to it's evolutionary benefit. E.O. Wilson has positied one if you'd like to look it up.

[cmotherofpirl]

this is not the debate board, the OP didn't ask for a debate she asked for HELP, so if you are not helpful, play elsewhere without whining.

[Annie12]

I feel better now. I just put my past behind me by un-friending them on facebook. People can't say there my friends when they insult me and persecute me. I'm lucky though to have two close friends who I know without a doubt would never act like that. And of course I always have a friends in Jesus!

Edited April 28, 2012 by Annie12

[4588686]

[quote name='Annie12' timestamp='1335639812' post='2424423']
I feel better now. I just put my past behind me by un-friending them on facebook. People can't say there my friends when they insult me and persecute me. I'm lucky though to have two close friends who I know without a doubt would never act like that. And of course I always have a friends in Jesus!
[/quote]

You have a very liberal understanding of persecution. My opinions is that neither of you really lost anything. If a six year friendship can collapse that quickly then it was never a real friendship to begin with. Just knock the dust from your sandals and move on.

[mortify]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1335637468' post='2424411']


Interesting. Maybe if you restate your claim yet again then that will suddenly count as evidence or argument.
[/quote]

If you understand that aspect of human nature that is sex, you will understand why things like homosexuality, beastiality, and masturbation are unnatural.

[Annie12]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1335640171' post='2424427']
You have a very liberal understanding of persecution. My opinions is that neither of you really lost anything. If a six year friendship can collapse that quickly then it was never a real friendship to begin with. Just knock the dust from your sandals and move on.
[/quote]

I also think it was a long time coming. Now that I look back, I bet I was the only one who called it a friendship. I don't think she care about me. and you're right. I'll just move on!

[4588686]

[quote name='mortify' timestamp='1335640991' post='2424439']
If you understand that aspect of human nature that is sex, you will understand why things like homosexuality, beastiality, and masturbation are unnatural.
[/quote]

I'm talking about nature. You're talking about the supernatural. I'm not talking about this anymore here. I'd like to start a new thread, though, if others are interested.

[MissyP89]

[quote name='beatitude' timestamp='1335622025' post='2424344']
The best way to safeguard our ideal of marriage is to rediscover the richness of the single life and to treat it with the respect it deserves - as a living vocation to which God calls people, not something we get to impose on those who happen to be attracted to people of the same gender.
[/quote]

YES! This is beautiful. You're amesome.

[quote name='Annie12' timestamp='1335628622' post='2424373']
I think I may have lost a friend of 6 year simply by stating my beliefs. I feel like being a hermit right now. I don't want anything to do with the outside world. Everyone just thinks I'm a fool! . My friend just called me every name in the book painting me as a bigot because I don't agree with gay marriage. I was the only darn conservative arguing against 3 other liberals! That is not fair! Prayers Please.
[/quote]

Been there. I know that pain. I'm not sure that cutting [i]her [/i]off was the best idea, but please make sure you continue to pray for her and treat her with respect. You're still an example of Jesus' love and mercy to everyone you meet, whether they like/respect you or not.

Hang in there.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Amen, that is a wonderful place to start, 'sex is for a higher purpose more than mere pleasure.'

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

[quote name='Annie12' timestamp='1335639812' post='2424423']
I feel better now. I just put my past behind me by un-friending them on facebook. People can't say there my friends when they insult me and persecute me. I'm lucky though to have two close friends who I know without a doubt would never act like that. And of course I always have a friends in Jesus!
[/quote]

Sometimes people change whether it is you or your friend, change is not bad and can cause friction. And we can only try and help somone outside of the faith for so long before we have to consider that there may be someone whom is more hungry for the truth waiting around the next corner. The longest period of time as a biblical example from jesus' is the parable of the servant in the orchard, he is given 2 years to bring this paticular tree in the garden to fruit,it fails to fruit despite all the servants efforts,the orchard owner orders the axe but the servant begs him one more year,it is granted and the servant puts in even more effort than the two years before but still no fruit. I don't believe it is the servant whom is bad but it is the tree whom is not willing. And be careful to because we can only sit in the darkness with a non believer for so long before where putting our own relationship with God into seriouse jeopardy. There are other gospel examples as well, the good samaritan spends one dark night with the injured person,and than leaves to continue his/her journey as one example, and when jesus says "better to cut off your right hand and go into heaven with half your body than to go into hell whole." I am a stubborn mule on these matters myself at times and think i can carry what jesus should carry, but all in all hopefully you have sewn a seed and push it in deep that just needs someone else to water at a later date, or possibly jesus' will water it now with his love and need you out of the way to work on your friend personaly. And yes do pray for your friend as often as you can remember. Pray possibly that any good seed you have scattered may be watered by Gods love and grow over time,and that he may protect that seed or push it deep into her heart till she is willing to be bought into fruition.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye

[Norseman82]

[quote name='beatitude' timestamp='1335622025' post='2424344']
The best way to safeguard our ideal of marriage is to rediscover the richness of the single life and to treat it with the respect it deserves - as a living vocation to which God calls people, not something we get to impose on those who happen to be attracted to people of the same gender.
[/quote]

Except that this is based on a false theological premise. Reading the catechism, the only time "singleness" is a vocation is in the context of consecrated life/priestly ministry. Additionally, there is biblical precedent for imposing singleness on those who have impediments to marriage, since St. Paul mentions that divorced people must remain single if they do not reconcile with their ex-spouse; add to the fact that canon law disallows peopel with certain impediments from marrying, so if we have no problem with that, then we should have no problem with the concept of "imposing" celibacy on those with same-sex attraction.

Single life may be "rich" for some, but the fact is that [u][b]not everyone can handle lifelong celibacy[/b][/u] (Christ even said so when he talked abiut the "eunuchs" for the kingdom), as it is not in our nature. This is where the "homosexual relations are against nature" ties in. From a non-religious standpoint, we can show how it goes against the way our bodies function (which I've covered previously in my plug/socket analogy). From a Christian standpoint, we go back to the beginning to show that this function was how God designed us, and Who said, "It is not good for the man to be alone" and decided to make a suitable helpmate/partner for him - a HETEROSEXUAL helpmate/partner, of the OPPOSITE gender. That is why, from both a natural and theological perspective, same-sex attraction is a disorder that goes against the very design/function of our bodies and creates a "mess" for people who are aftected by it.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Norseman82

[beatitude]

[i]Vita Consecrata[/i] has this to say:

[quote]We are all aware of the treasure which the gift of the consecrated life in the variety of its charisms and institutions represents for the ecclesial community. [i]Together let us thank God [/i]for the Religious Orders and Institutes devoted to contemplation or the works of the apostolate, for Societies of Apostolic Life, for Secular Institutes and for other groups of consecrated persons, [b][u]as well as for all those individuals who, in their inmost hearts, dedicate themselves to God by a special consecration.[/u][/b][/quote]

That makes it pretty clear that private promises can be enough.

Gay Catholics lead celibate lives because this is what their faith asks of them. Saying that singleness is not a 'real' vocation is essentially saying that these people don't have a real vocation. Is God really so ungenerous as to create a human being without purpose?

We can't force anything on anybody; we all have free will and how we live our lives is between us and God. I know what the Church teaches, but only I can accept it - no one else can do that for me. All we can do is offer one another the love that Christ offers us. With this prayerful support we encourage one another to make the right choices. Treating the single life as something shoddy and third-rate and then turning round and telling other people that this is how they have got to live is not doing that.

I've seen several rather bitter posts from you on the subject of singleness, which are sometimes quite derogatory towards single Catholic women in particular. I avoided those threads on purpose, and I don't want to discuss here something that has already been done to death in multiple threads.

Edited April 29, 2012 by beatitude

[Norseman82]

[quote name='beatitude' timestamp='1335726867' post='2424833']
That makes it pretty clear that private promises can be enough.
[/quote]

And how many people who say they are called to be single are making those "private promises" or "special consecrations" - FOR LIFE? Because that is one of the characteristics of a state of life vocation - it is permanent.

[quote name='beatitude' timestamp='1335726867' post='2424833']
Gay Catholics lead celibate lives because this is what their faith asks of them. Saying that singleness is not a 'real' vocation is essentially saying that these people don't have a real vocation. Is God really so ungenerous as to create a human being without purpose?
[/quote]

According to CCC 1603, the vocation everyone is born with is hetersexual marriage. That is our purpose, unless one receives a call to one of the "celibate vocations", i.e., priestly ministry or consecrated life.

And I am not derogatory toward women; I am derogatory toward heretics who use false teaching to try to make life difficult for those who are trying to achieve the vocation that God wrote into their very nature.