Defending Traditional Marriage. Please Help! Urgent!

[Jesus_lol]

but hey if you dont want to look like a bigot on FB, probably the best bet is to go around comparing gay people to people who have sex with horses and sheep, that should go over smoothly.

[Papist]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1335588758' post='2424287']
Um, how so?
[/quote]

B/c you are saying there are to be restrictions. This happens to be the case today b/c today I am not allowed to marry my sister, which is discrimatory.

[kujo]

A[color=#000000]m I the only person who giggled at the outlet/plug analogy?[/color]

[color="#000000"]<Never[/color][color=#000000]mind...not appropriate...>[/color]

Edited April 28, 2012 by kujo

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1335590650' post='2424298']
This is when it falls apart. If you are contending that the damage to a child from not having the love of a father and a mother is so serious that the state has an interest in having discriminatory laws then it makes no sense to allow a non-married same-sex couple raise a child. Or a single parent household.



[/quote]

I agree about the single parent thing, i think if a mother or father dies or divorced due to serious complications in the marriage, it is fine for the remaining parent to souly raise there children. My argument about same sex couples having children is there not meant to because they don't have sexual intercourse in laymen terms that means putting a penis into a vagina,please read my ivf post for the possibly one off exemtion to this natural RULE. i.e. break the rules and your a cheat and will be seriously penalised. , a homsexual is not meant to have a baby born that way or not.

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1335600388' post='2424317']
A[color=#000000]m I the only person who giggled at the outlet/plug analogy?[/color]

[color=#000000]<Never[/color][color=#000000]mind...not appropriate...>[/color]
[/quote]

why not appropriate, i prefer saying penis and vagina.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

anyone whom want's to rebuke me for saying how it is better have a long chat with the LORD about why treading on politicaly correct eggshells is plastic just like condoms and credit cards,while still remaining in love with faith and hope for the salvation of all. Mary help of christians Pray for us. And probably tommorow i will be hot again instead of cold, tha flu/cold iz like crazy man lol i actually do have a flu but hopefully will be less tommorow.

Edited April 28, 2012 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye

[Basilisa Marie]

Personally I've found that most arguments for any part of Catholic sexual ethics only truly make sense within context of the whole system. When you believe that sex is for a higher purpose than mere pleasure and that marriage is for spouses helping each other to get to heaven AND raising kids, you aren't going to convince someone who believes that sex is for pleasure and that marriage is a public declaration of love. Our teachings are based on a completely different world-view than theirs are, and thus don't make sense outside our world-view.

So what I'm saying is that you've got to start with the foundations. Sex, relationships, marriage, all that. You can't just argue that gay marriage is wrong; you have you first show why our view on what marriage [i]is [/i]is different from theirs and why it's better.

That's assuming they aren't just trying to troll you and are open to any kind of intellectual discussion. But most internet atheists are trolls, and I've found that it hasn't been worth it to try and "win" the argument.

[Anomaly]

Just because it occurs in NAture, doesn't make it normal or ideal. No matter how hard a gay couple tries, they can't conceive with just the two of them. There are species that change gender in certain circumstances do they can procreate. Humans ain't one of them. Normal/natural is one of each gender mate and raise offspring.

Society recognizes that natural order and promotes that type of relationship to benefit the stability of the normative family unit as a benefit to society and the individuals.

Even though that is the ideal, there are other types of family groups that are acceptable to society as long as it isn't detrimental to the "ideal". For example, promoting a single parent family as being just as ideal as a two parent family is not the same as recognizing single parent families happen and society should help them.

One could argue that marriage is the societal recognition and promotion of the ideal and normative family unit. But you run into the problem of situations that occur that happen when the "ideal" doesn't exist.

Ultimately, society would want to promote the family unit that is best for the nurture and care of the children. My opinion is society accepting easy divorce and impermanent family units is what's most harmful to children.

[CatholicCid]

Here is a useful article discussing Natural Law and Marriage from a secular perspective: http://www.catholic.org/hf/family/story.php?id=38356

[beatitude]

[quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1335615922' post='2424333']
Personally I've found that most arguments for any part of Catholic sexual ethics only truly make sense within context of the whole system. When you believe that sex is for a higher purpose than mere pleasure and that marriage is for spouses helping each other to get to heaven AND raising kids, you aren't going to convince someone who believes that sex is for pleasure and that marriage is a public declaration of love. Our teachings are based on a completely different world-view than theirs are, and thus don't make sense outside our world-view.[/quote]

This sums it up perfectly.

My gay friends who are in romantic relationships experience deep care and friendship for one another as well as physical attraction. This is why analogies about a person getting married to a fish will not work, because a fish is incapable of relating to people in this way. One thing that makes me uncomfortable with the debate on marriage is that it focuses almost exclusively on sex and boils down to people's body parts, as Norseman's plug analogy shows. It ignores emotional intimacy, and friendship, and commitment, and yes, love.

We believe that marriage is only for one man and one woman, because of the gift of co-creation with God. But our faith has always shown us that there are a myriad ways for us to love one another. My favourite stories from the gospels are the ones that show Jesus facing just one other person - the woman who had been condemned to death, Mary Magdalene in the garden after the resurrection, Peter on the shore, Pilate at the judgment seat. Christ was always celibate, but in these encounters (especially the encounters with his close personal friends) show us the deep intimacy, tenderness, and love that it is possible to give and receive as a celibate person.

We devalue celibacy. By 'we' I'm not talking about modern secular society, but we as Catholics. As a celibate single woman, living not as a nun but as a candidate with a [url="http://www.secularinstitutes.co.uk/"]secular institute[/url], I am painfully familiar with this. This way of life gets treated as the third-class vocation, something dull, something undesirable, something lonely. There are many otherwise orthodox Catholics who harbour this way of thinking in their hearts. Yet they are the first to say that this is how gay people must live.

We contribute to the erosion of marriage when we devalue celibacy and its possibilities. When we think pityingly of single people and wonder why they can't find a partner. When we plan to invite them over to dinner not because we really want to see them, but because we are good charitable people who are doing the Christian Thingâ„¢ and making their (obviously) lonely life a bit easier. When we gossip about so-and-so who is in her forties with no husband in sight. (In the kindest and most well-intentioned way, of course...). When we push away the thought that we might be called to celibacy ourselves ("Not I, Lord?") because the thought of being on our own is just too terrifying. And finally, we contribute to the erosion of marriage when we tell gay people that they must commit to a challenging way of living that they know darned well we would be reluctant to take on ourselves.

The best way to safeguard our ideal of marriage is to rediscover the richness of the single life and to treat it with the respect it deserves - as a living vocation to which God calls people, not something we get to impose on those who happen to be attracted to people of the same gender.

[Annie12]

I think I may have lost a friend of 6 year simply by stating my beliefs. I feel like being a hermit right now. I don't want anything to do with the outside world. Everyone just thinks I'm a fool! . My friend just called me every name in the book painting me as a bigot because I don't agree with gay marriage. I was the only darn conservative arguing against 3 other liberals! That is not fair! Prayers Please.

[Archaeology cat]

Praying, Annie. It's hard losing a friend, though personally if I can't be myself around my friends, then they aren't good friends. My BFF and I have very different views on many things, but that doesn't matter to our friendship. Perhaps it's that I've known her long enough that she's family, and I don't disown family when I disagree with them (which is often). Again, prayers.

[Archaeology cat]

Nvm

Edited April 28, 2012 by Archaeology cat

[bernadette d]

I agree with AC.

Prayers for you.

[Jesus_lol]

and this people, is why politics and religion discussion is often taboo in bars, etc.

If i was going to openly debate on a forum full of people i know, with every friend of mine who's views didnt line up exactly with mine, i would be left with a lot less friends. If i intimated that a fiery hell was awaiting some of them, im sure i would have a lot more enemies.

This goes for any really hot button topic, and can be seen on both sides of the fence.

[mortify]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1335596643' post='2424313']


Both are natural. Just because something is natural doesn't in itself make it right but you can't say that homosexual is unnatural. it occurs in nature.
[/quote]

Homosexuality is unnatural because its a disorder that runs contrary to nature.