Winchester Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 (edited) stupid feature. stupid stupid. Edited April 28, 2012 by Winchester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1335587653' post='2424273'] Some fish are just asking for it, though. [/quote] Hit it and quit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luigi Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 [quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1335586373' post='2424263'] There are gay people. Something that occurs naturally cannot be against nature. What you really mean is that it is against your understanding of what is normative. [/quote] Traditional marriage is normative because it has been the norm - not just culturally, but numerically - in virtually every culture on the face of the earth for virtually all time. There are and have been cultures which allowed one-man-multiple-wives or one-woman-multiple-husbands, but that was never the norm for the vast majority of the people within the culture. Additionally, the very vast majority of all marriages in all cultures have have been heterosexual. That's a pretty strong statistical preponderance. The current rage to redefine marriage is just that - the current rage. It's no different than those stupid new shoes with individual toes, in very loud colors. The current rage to redefine marriage is an ad campaign, a hip trend, a mindless group-think exercise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 [quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1335587601' post='2424272'] A fish cannot consent to anything. it cannot in any meaningful sense enter into a contractual relationship and participate in what makes a marriage relationship and marriage. It cannot become legally entangled with a person. A fish cannot hold property. [/quote] Some fish are just asking for it, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 [quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1335587601' post='2424272'] Gay marriage does not in any way logically imply beastile marriages. A fish cannot consent to anything. it cannot in any meaningful sense enter into a contractual relationship and participate in what makes a marriage relationship and marriage. It cannot become legally entangled with a person. A fish cannot hold property. It is legitimate to ask what relationships between CONSENTING ADULTS would be excluded. I don't know. Maybe polygamy. That would require more investigation. But the fact that recognizing a legal right will make things slightly complicated for the courts doesn't justify denying a citizen equality under the law. [/quote] So you support marriage discrimination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1335588413' post='2424284'] So you support marriage discrimination. [/quote] Um, how so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 (edited) . Edited April 28, 2012 by Hasan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 [quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1335586373' post='2424263'] There are gay people. Something that occurs naturally cannot be against nature. What you really mean is that it is against your understanding of what is normative. [/quote] That does not change the fact that a plug by definition fits into an outlet and not another plug. Let me put it another way. A person may be born with a missing limb, but that does not mean it is normal for people to be missing a limb. Similarly, if there is a "gay gene", then that would qualify as a disability, since it goes against the way we are built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 [quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1335588996' post='2424289'] That does not change the fact that a plug by definition fits into an outlet and not another plug. Let me put it another way. A person may be born with a missing limb, but that does not mean it is normal for people to be missing a limb. Similarly, if there is a "gay gene", then that would qualify as a disability, since it goes against the way we are built. [/quote] No it doesn't. I understand why you say that but you're mixing darwinism and teleology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 [quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1335589135' post='2424291'] No it doesn't. I understand why you say that but you're mixing darwinism and teleology. [/quote] Call it darwinism or what you want, but the bottom line is that this is how our bodies work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianthephysicist Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 [quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1335587601' post='2424272'] Gay marriage does not in any way logically imply beastile marriages. A fish cannot consent to anything. it cannot in any meaningful sense enter into a contractual relationship and participate in what makes a marriage relationship and marriage. It cannot become legally entangled with a person. A fish cannot hold property. It is legitimate to ask what relationships between CONSENTING ADULTS would be excluded. I don't know. Maybe polygamy. That would require more investigation. But the fact that recognizing a legal right will make things slightly complicated for the courts doesn't justify denying a citizen equality under the law. [/quote] You are correct that we should ask what relationships between consenting adults would be included or excluded. The basic idea is that marriage involves more than just the two adults. In addition to the more subtle and debated effects on the community, a large concern is the effects on children raised in such a marriage. Once the issue comes to include children, that's when I believe we as a society have the obligation to stand up for the rights of the child. BTW I do want to note that we are not talking about the topic of whether or not two adults are cohabitating (I can preach against but wouldn't legislate against) but the topic of two adults marrying. The basic idea comes down to the fact that men and women love differently. Not that one is any better than the other, they are simply different. This is a good and beautiful gift for us to share in. Because of this difference in love, we need the strong love of a mother and a father. A same-sex couple (even though they love fully, with all of their hearts) cannot provide this for the child. No woman can "make up for" the love of a father and no man can "make up for" the love of a mother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 [quote name='brianthephysicist' timestamp='1335589432' post='2424295'] You are correct that we should ask what relationships between consenting adults would be included or excluded. The basic idea is that marriage involves more than just the two adults. In addition to the more subtle and debated effects on the community, a large concern is the effects on children raised in such a marriage. Once the issue comes to include children, that's when I believe we as a society have the obligation to stand up for the rights of the child. BTW I do want to note that we are not talking about the topic of whether or not two adults are cohabitating (I can preach against but wouldn't legislate against) but the topic of two adults marrying. [/QUOTE] This is when it falls apart. If you are contending that the damage to a child from not having the love of a father and a mother is so serious that the state has an interest in having discriminatory laws then it makes no sense to allow a non-married same-sex couple raise a child. Or a single parent household. [QUOTE] The basic idea comes down to the fact that men and women love differently. Not that one is any better than the other, they are simply different. This is a good and beautiful gift for us to share in. Because of this difference in love, we need the strong love of a mother and a father. A same-sex couple (even though they love fully, with all of their hearts) cannot provide this for the child. No woman can "make up for" the love of a father and no man can "make up for" the love of a mother. [/quote] [url="http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news/20051012/study-same-sex-parents-raise-well-adjusted-kids"]http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news/20051012/study-same-sex-parents-raise-well-adjusted-kids[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 (edited) Try browsing through http://www.marriageuniqueforareason.org I've found that to be a wonderful resource. Edited April 28, 2012 by qfnol31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 [quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1335586373' post='2424263'] There are gay people. Something that occurs naturally cannot be against nature. What you really mean is that it is against your understanding of what is normative. [/quote] Homosexuality is a disordered sexual tendency towards the same sex. Just because it occurs doesn't make it "normal," anymore than something like pedophilia is normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 [quote name='mortify' timestamp='1335596020' post='2424312'] Homosexuality is a disordered sexual tendency towards the same sex. Just because it occurs doesn't make it "normal," anymore than something like pedophilia is normal. [/quote] Both are natural. Just because something is natural doesn't in itself make it right but you can't say that homosexual is unnatural. it occurs in nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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