Leaving The Motherhouse

[MissyP89]

Still trying to figure out how Winnie got hitched...

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='MissyP89' timestamp='1335313343' post='2422967']
Still trying to figure out how Winnie got hitched...
[/quote]

I think he conked her on the head and dragged her back to his cave.

[Lil Red]

the only reason he's a firefighter is because he knew chicks dig that profession.

[AnneLine]

Wow... you know him. He's really real. I'd wondered..... as he is married... special prayers for both... mmm mmmm mmmm

[Lil Red]

[quote name='AnneLine' timestamp='1335314008' post='2422980']
Wow... you know him. He's really real. I'd wondered..... as he is married... special prayers for both... mmm mmmm mmmm
[/quote]

[AnneLine]

ACS67.... that was a beautiful post.

I know what you mean about not knowing if you are on the right or left... have the same experience in my world.

Many times I have to back away from the internet.... and make myself take a time out. Hope we do see you back! All of you!

Prayers for you... .and for all of you. "Bear with one another in love, as Christ would have you do."

[Winchester]

[quote name='MissyP89' timestamp='1335313343' post='2422967']
Still trying to figure out how Winnie got hitched...
[/quote]
Sacrament of Marriage. Duh.

[Gemma]

SLIPPAGE! THE BLDG IS COMING OFF THE FOUNDATION!!!

$20 million to repair--bldg stabilization needed, for one thing. I've not seen anything other than this article, so I can't see what else has to be done.

I wish I could have given these sisters a hug. The article is dated. Any updates?

Would you believe this news actually made the Winston-Salem (NC) Journal?

Blessings,
Gemma

[AnneLine]

Gemma... you are right! The article is dated.....

December 16, 2008 !

I thought it sounded familiar!

At the risk of starting this back up again (please no!), I did find a later article...

[url="http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2009-02-05-brooklyn-convent_N.htm"]http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2009-02-05-brooklyn-convent_N.htm[/url]

they did have to move, because it is slipping off its foundations, as Gemma noted, but apparently their sisters and their ministries are continuing.


Prayers for all...

Edited April 25, 2012 by AnneLine

[Antigonos]

It seems to me that, at least to a certain extent, this discussion has been affected by the news that the Vatican is highly critical of certain aspects of women's religious communities [mainly active ones, if I have read the news reports correctly] in the US. I would be interested in what Sr. Marie, as well as forum members, think of the situation. It is noticeable that comments by lay American Catholics on various newspapers have been highly critical of the Vatican, and supportive of the nuns who are supposed to be "too radical for their own good". Or, to put it another way, American Catholics seem to feel that this is a case of "men putting the uppity women" down, in a reactionary attitude more suited to the period of Pope Pius X than the 21st century. Is it really a difference in philosophical approach to what should be a nun's priorities or merely a "men are from Mars, women are from Venus" issue? Has the crop of sexual abuse scandals [perpetrated by male priests] influenced the perception of the public and/or the religious orders involved? [Many of the comments make this point: while priests are being exposed in unsavory behavoir, the nuns go on doing good works, however radical their theology might be]

What do you all think? Is there a sort of male-dominated backlash to V2 going on, or is this indeed a case where Catholicism in America is becoming almost a distinctive form, rather in the way that the medieval Celtic Church differed from Rome [ultimately, of course, those practices in the Celtic Church came into line with Rome, but it did take a very long time] Will vocations be affected?

[Gemma]

I'm developing a website called "The Dehey Tour", which revisits Dehey's book "Religious Orders of Women in the United States".

I'm not happy with what I'm finding. In fact, the Brooklyn Mercies are just one example of what I'm discovering.

The Society of the Sacred Heart's Kenwood convent in Albany, NY, is one of several in the area that are up for sale.

[url="http://www.timesunion.com/business/article/Kenwood-Convent-for-sale-546155.php"]http://www.timesunion.com/business/article/Kenwood-Convent-for-sale-546155.php[/url]

[url="http://www.examiner.com/article/kenwood-convent-of-the-sacred-heart"]http://www.examiner.com/article/kenwood-convent-of-the-sacred-heart[/url]

The Ursulines of Kansas have put their convent up for sale.

[url="http://www.paolaursuline.org/paolaconvent.html"]http://www.paolaursuline.org/paolaconvent.html[/url]

As I said, those are only a few examples.

I believe the papal review of the LCWR's statutes, and the Apostolic Visitation, will reveal that there is indeed "something rotten in Denmark." While the great majority of women religious are plucky fighters for peace and justice, there are a few in their ranks who have gone whole-hog with the radical feminism thing and have apostatized because of it.

Either these orders are going to die out--which they are--because of recidivism in the leadership, or someone's going to wake up and smell the dust of the destruction going on around them, and make the needed changes.

I have heard of the horror stories of pre-Vatican II religious life. Minor changes were supposed to take place to address those issues. You see what happened.

Has anyone ever bothered to read the Alta Vendita? Or the communist party's plans for America? Both involved infiltrating the convents and taking down the women's religious orders. They also included infiltrating the priesthood. Even Pope Paul VI said "the smoke of Satan has entered the church."

Whenever I wear our Cloisterite Hermits lay association distinctive garb (permitted by canon law!!!) just between here and church, people relax because they see God is still alive. "Thank you for loving us," is the consensus.

Have a blessed day.

Blessings,
Gemma

[mantellata]

Thank you Antigonos for your question. I believe this inquiry into the LCWR is a long time coming. It is hard for many people to understand how an official arm within the Church (advisory to the Vatican) could for so long take a [u]public [/u]stance that to all appearances seems to be antithetical to Catholic doctrine.

This is why I think it is go good for the Vatican to step in and perform a review of the situation. What is interesting to me is how all the write up is on "the big bad boys at the Vatican" when modern day inquiries of this nature are a far cry from inquisitorial. The first step (if it is anything like every other CDF investigation) will be to interview members - especially those holding positions of authority - to haggle over terms.

Yes terms.

The most important thing for the CDF will be to understand if what appears on the outside to be publicly heterodox teaching is actually so.

I believe the problems in question include the LCWRs support and teaching of (in the past) of "women's ordination", contraception, and the essential elements of religious life.

The LCWR doesn't believe that their role as religious is a public one in the Church, or that they need to teach "official church teaching" as can be read here:

[url="http://www.npr.org/2012/04/23/151222359/vatican-reprimand-of-u-s-nuns-divides-faithful"]http://www.npr.org/2012/04/23/151222359/vatican-reprimand-of-u-s-nuns-divides-faithful[/url]

Regarding the fundamentals of religious life, the theology of the vows, the role of religious etc.... There is much in the verbiage used which seems to contradict what the Church has decreed in Perfectae Caritatis, Vita Consecrata and a fabulous document by the name of Essential Elements (the latin name escaping me at the moment).

The CDF will want to pastorally make sure they are understanding the Sisters positions correctly, offer them ways of rewording things so that they line up with Church teaching and only after months and months (or perhaps even years) of this kind of dialogue --- which actually has been going on since Vatican II (it's why the post-conciliar documents on religious life were created in the first place) will they take official action..... like dissolving the LCWR as an official Church organization and advisory to the Vatican. They may also demand that the name "Catholic" not be used in official documents published by the LCWR. Based on what I've read -- many Sisters (at least members holding official positions in the group) might not mind using "Catholic" in their work at all.



On a completely different note, I would like the LCWR to quit inflating their numbers and consistantly speaking for [u]all[/u] American religious when they clearly do not speak for all American religious. The CMSWR is also an official organization of American Sisters and I was so [i]angered[/i] , annoyed and appalled that during this whole HHS thing [b][i]I and my community[/i][/b] as an American religious (at the time and shortly to be returning) was numbered among those the LCWR claimed to speak for. Sisters who signed the official letter to the Obama administration in support of their healthcare reform only represented communities of very small numbers (some only 4 or 8) and one Sister even signed [u]twice![/u] And yet they had the gall to say they represented all American Religious. The CMSWR document was completely discounted.



All that being said, when Sisters loose their home, their Chapel etc... I still find that a cause for sadness -- personally. I know what it is like to have such a major life change and it is never easy. I pray that they Sisters find strength in each other -- this doesn't mean I agree with their congregation's official stance on things - but I do believe that compassion in is order in regards to the loss of their home.

*end soap box*

[Annie12]

There are 4 whole pages of posts here and I'm bad at reading so i'm just going to write my post here and if i am reiterating what others have said so be it but anyway:

Being liberal is not a sin. Not wearing the habit is not a sin. what is bad though is Not following the church teachings and speaking for the church at the same time. I am thankful for all that the sisters do in respect to education and work with the sick and poor. Now I did some research into the sisters of mercy and I am pleased with what I found. They seem to be following the church's teachings. look at this: [url="http://www.sistersofmercy.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1579&Itemid=295"]http://www.sistersofmercy.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1579&Itemid=295[/url] . [u]At the bottom they mentions that all human life is sacred![/u] If the order teaches that, then if a sister of Mercy is pro abortion or something, then they,[i] the individual,[/i] are responsible for not following the church, not the order. We should therefore pray for those who do not follow the church's teachings.

As to the habit matter, while it would be nice if they wore the habit. They are not specifically bad because they don't. I like to see sisters in habits because it show on the outside what in on the inside. It shows from afar what they hold close to their heart. In this there could be so much more realization about Catholics if they just by walking down the street could send the message " Jesus is so important to me that I have changed my entire life for him". I realize these sisters already love Christ and do lots of wonderful things, though, imagine how amesome it would be if you could see that on the outside from down the street!!!

I find it really, really sad that they have to leave their home , but I think that everyone should trust in God on this matter and know that everything happens for a reason. Maybe this is a way to teach us a lesson (not in a negative sense but in a beautiful sense). maybe God is trying to show us all a more beautiful way. This may be his way of helping the order get more vocations in the future. What ever the case arguing about it won't change anything. We all, including the sisters, have to trust in God and never fear. As long as we are in him and he in us, we are safe and have nothing to worry about. Their house, while it was very valuable to them and close to their hearts, in the end we have to remember that it is a material thing and real riches are found in heaven. What ever happens will be Gods will and we just need to trust.

It is sad to hear so much arguing about this because, it doesn't directly pertain to us, though the arguing directly hurt our relationship with each other. I pray we can go above the irritation we feel and truly love one another as Christ does. I also pray that these sisters faithfully follow Christ always by following the church. I hope everyone can find the joy in today and remember that Jesus loves us all so there is nothing to be upset about (except the injustices in the world, but that's another topic). Pray and be happy!

[Blessed&Grateful]

Prayers for the sisters.

and thanks for thier service.

[Sister Marie]

[quote name='ACS67' timestamp='1335313033' post='2422960']
I sincerely meant no offense and had NO idea my opinion would cause this kind of firestorm...not on this forum anyway which upholds orthodoxy (small "o" Marigold ).

This has truly been a strange day for me. I've been battling friends who are "ultra-traditionalist" who I disagree with vehemently, and yet still love dearly, and now I'm battleing y'all, Catholics who are rather moderate. Ice Princess, you are right, it's time for a break, for me at least, from all forums. Looking forward to, my Marian prayer group meeting, and Adoration tomorow (confession wouldn't be a bad idea either!).

Sister Marie, I obviously offended you, therefore I apologize. That was never my intention. Please know that.
[/quote]

I appreciate and accept your apology and I apologize as well. After reading a few of the threads on the LCWR and sisters in general many of the comments upset me and this thread pushed that frustration even further. I hope you can forgive me.

To all - I do realize that this is an internet forum and not real life; however, I do believe that we are called to be Christians online as well as in our real - off-line lives. I am not accusing anyone of being unchristian. I think that the goal of Catholics shouldn't be to force people to agree with us or with the Church through rhetoric but to guide others in love to the truth which we have found in the Church. This goal has the same end result - producing and fostering faithful Catholics - but a different way of getting there. I'm just making the observation that we are able to affect others through our online interactions just as much as in our day to day interactions - only the interactions here are permanent and can be viewed over and over and over again. Sometimes we are more willing to be critical and fiery in our speech online than we would be if we were faced with a person right in front of us. I know I am guilty of this as well.

I know that none of the comments made about these sisters or the LCWR or sisters in general were meant specifically towards me. But I am a sister and any comments that are made in general about sisters are made about me - they are personal because being a sister is who I am. When I wrote about myself I was trying to put a face on the faceless "liberal" sister so many people seem to think that they know.

I hope that in all the time I have been here - time that I have spent sharing about myself, my community, my spirituality and prayer, my apostolate, really sharing the heart of my life - that people would see in me someone who cares about them, someone who has a relationship with God, someone who is trying very hard to be holy and of course failing as we all do. I hoped that by putting my own face on the unknown "liberal" sister it would be harder to treat her so harshly that it might make others think a little bit more before judging. Now that you know me, would you say many of those posts (and not just the ones in this thread) to my face, to me directly? Would you write to me, "Sister Marie, hopefully a more faithful community will take over your motherhouse?" Would you say "Sister Marie, you are disobedient." Would you be able to say, "Sister Marie, thank God your community won't be around much longer to ruin the Church." Or would you think a little bit differently, while still believing what you believe and stating your truth respectfully, because you know me as a person and as a sister on the journey to God, in the Church, with you?

I will continue to keep each of you in loving prayer.

SM