Obama Vs. Boehner: Who Killed The Debt Deal?

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[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][color=#000000][left]Almost immediately after the so-called grand bargain between[/left][/color][url="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/o/barack_obama/index.html?inline=nyt-per"]President Obama[/url][color=#000000][left] and the Republican speaker of the house, [/left][/color][url="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/b/john_a_boehner/index.html?inline=nyt-per"]John Boehner[/url][color=#000000][left], unraveled last July, the two sides quickly settled into dueling, self-serving narratives of what transpired behind closed doors. In the months that followed, some of Washington’s most connected Democrats and Republicans told me in casual conversations that they didn’t know whose story to believe, or even what, exactly, had been on the table during the negotiations. A few mentioned, independently of one another, that the entire affair reminded them of “Rashomon,” the classic Kurosawa film in which four characters fiddler the same murder plot through their different perspectives. Over time, the whole debacle became the perfect metaphor for a city in which the two parties seem more and more to occupy not just opposing places on the political spectrum, but distinct realities altogether.[/left][/color][/font][/size]

[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][color=#000000][left]There is a practical reason for this. Both sides knew that if the most crucial and contested details of their deliberations became public, it would complicate relationships with some of their most important constituencies in Washington — or worse. It’s one thing for a Democratic president to embrace painful cuts in [/left][/color][url="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/health/diseasesconditionsandhealthtopics/medicare/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier"]Medicare[/url][color=#000000][left] and [/left][/color][url="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/s/social_security_us/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier"]Social Security[/url][color=#000000][left] benefits, or for a Republican speaker to contemplate raising taxes, if they can ultimately claim that they’ve joined together to make the hard decisions necessary for the country; it’s quite another thing to shatter the trust of your most ideological allies and come away with nothing to show for it. Obama and Boehner have clung to their separate realities not just because it’s useful to blame each other for the political dysfunction in Washington, but because neither wants to talk about just how far he was willing to go.[/left][/color][/font][/size][color=#000000][font=georgia,][size=1]
[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]In This Article:[/font][/size][/size][/font][/color][color=#000000][font=georgia,][size=1]
[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]• [url="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/01/magazine/obama-vs-boehner-who-killed-the-debt-deal.html?pagewanted=all#1"]The Secret Negotiations Begin[/url]
• [url="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/01/magazine/obama-vs-boehner-who-killed-the-debt-deal.html?pagewanted=all#2"]Boehner's Cryptic Message[/url]
• [url="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/01/magazine/obama-vs-boehner-who-killed-the-debt-deal.html?pagewanted=all#3"]Decoding Boehner's Proposal[/url]
• [url="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/01/magazine/obama-vs-boehner-who-killed-the-debt-deal.html?pagewanted=all#4"]The Trouble Getting to 'Yes'[/url]
• [url="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/01/magazine/obama-vs-boehner-who-killed-the-debt-deal.html?pagewanted=all#5"]Enter the Gang of Six[/url]
• [url="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/01/magazine/obama-vs-boehner-who-killed-the-debt-deal.html?pagewanted=all#6"]A Costly Miscalculation[/url]
• [url="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/01/magazine/obama-vs-boehner-who-killed-the-debt-deal.html?pagewanted=all#7"]The Grand Bargain Within Reach[/url]
• [url="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/01/magazine/obama-vs-boehner-who-killed-the-debt-deal.html?pagewanted=all#8"]Cantor and the Counteroffer[/url]
• [url="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/01/magazine/obama-vs-boehner-who-killed-the-debt-deal.html?pagewanted=all#9"]Boehner Betrayed?[/url][/font][/size][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=georgia,][size=1]
[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]The Republican version of reality goes, briefly, like this: Boehner and Obama shook hands on a far-reaching deal to rewrite the tax code, roll back the cost of entitlements and slash deficits. But then Obama, reacting to pressure from Democrats in Congress, panicked at the last minute and suddenly demanded that Republicans accede to hundreds of billions of dollars in additional tax revenue. A frustrated Boehner no longer believed he could trust the president’s word, and he walked away. [i]Obama moved the goal posts,[/i]is the Republican mantra.[/font][/size][/size][/font][/color][color=#000000][font=georgia,][size=1]
[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]In the White House’s telling of the story, Obama and Boehner did indeed settle on a rough framework for a deal, but it was all part of a fluid negotiation, and additional revenue was just one of the options on the table — not a last-minute demand. And while the president stood resolute against pressure from his own party, Boehner crumpled when challenged by the more radical members in his caucus. According to this version, Boehner made up the story about a late-breaking demand as a way of extricating himself from the negotiations, because he realized he couldn’t bring recalcitrant Republicans along. [i]Boehner couldn’t deliver,[/i] is what Democrats have repeatedly said.[/font][/size][/size][/font][/color][color=#000000][font=georgia,][size=1]
[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]In recent weeks, as it became clear that I was planning to write a more nuanced and detailed account of the final week of negotiations, both sides — but primarily the speaker and his aides — went out of their way to give extensive accounts to reporters at other outlets, in an effort to reinforce their well-rehearsed narratives. And yet it’s possible now to get beyond these clashing realities. Over the last several months, I spoke with dozens of people who were involved in or were kept apprised of events that week, some of whom made available private documents from that time, including the various offers and counteroffers. I conducted most of these interviews on the condition that I would neither reveal nor quote the people who spoke to me, so that they would feel free to speak candidly.[/font][/size][/size][/font][/color][color=#000000][font=georgia,][size=1]
[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]What emerged from these conversations is a clearer and often surprising picture of exactly how close Obama and Boehner came to finalizing a historic agreement, what exactly was in it and why it ultimately fell apart — including a revelation that illuminates Boehner’s thinking in those final hours and directly contradicts a core element of the version he has told, even to some in his own leadership.[/font][/size][/size][/font][/color][color=#000000][font=georgia,][size=1]
[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]The truth here matters for more than its historical value. At the end of this year, no matter how the presidential election turns out, the two parties will face yet another Armageddon moment in the fight over debt and spending; this time, if they don’t settle on a plan to rein in the nation’s nearly $16 trillion debt, then a series of onerous budget cuts — worth about $1.2 trillion over 10 years, divided between defense and other programs — will automatically go into effect. If we understand what really went on last July, then we’ll have a better sense of how difficult it will be for the two parties to stave off the coming political calamity and why, too, the situation may not be quite as hopeless as it seems.[/font][/size][/size][/font][/color][color=#000000][font=georgia,][size=1]
[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][/font][/size][/size][/font][/color][color=#000000][font=georgia,][size=1]
[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][b]The Secret Negotiations Begin[/b][/font][/size][/size][/font][/color][color=#000000][font=georgia,][size=1]
[size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]You may recall that Washington last summer was verging on something resembling cold-war hysteria. Republicans in the House were refusing to meet an August deadline for increasing the nation’s <a class="meta-classifier" href="http://topics.nytimes.com/topics/reference/timestopics/subjects/n/national_debt_us/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier" style="color: rgb(102, 102, 153); " title="More articles about the national debt.">debt limit by some $2.4 trillion unless they got an equivalent amount of budget cuts in return, raising the prospect of a default that, it was assumed, would send the financial markets into a death spiral. Vice President Joe Biden and Eric Cantor, the House majority leader and Boehner’s No. 2 in the Republican caucus, had been holding talks in hopes of finding some preliminary agreement that might avert disaster, but those talks broke down in late June, primarily over the issue of taxes; the two men and their staffs had identified something like $2 trillion in cuts over the next decade, but the White House wasn’t going to make a deal that didn’t include some new tax revenue, and Cantor was adamant that raising taxes — any taxes — was a deal-breaker.[/font][/size][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][left][font="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"][b]Fairly long article: [/b][/font][url="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/01/magazine/obama-vs-boehner-who-killed-the-debt-deal.html?ref=mattbai"]http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/01/magazine/obama-vs-boehner-who-killed-the-debt-deal.html?ref=mattbai[/url][/left][/color]

[Anomaly]

Why did you post this drivel? Matt Bai is progressive/Democat leaning journalist with no bones as an independent thinker. The article doesn't begin to actually appear to be thoughtful and fair. He immediately dismisses Boehner's side about as blantantly calling it a "[i]version[/i]" and doesn't really describe Obama's position. It's just a he said/she said, and he only discusses on side.

I cereal guyed when he said Boehner got busy in defense mode only when Boehner found out Bai was going to write an article. Ohhhh. We got a bad arse here!

And how ridiculous is this description: "[color="#000000"]the nation’s nearly $16 trillion debt, then a series of onerous budget cuts — worth about $1.2 trillion over 10 years,". If i get the numbers he's talking about in the article and put it in personal budget perspective,, imagine you owe $16,000, and you want to cut your budge out lays by $1,600 over ten years ($160 per year), but at the same time giving yourself permision to borrow an additional $2,400 per year (increasing your dept limit). So in 10 years, you add $24,000 to the $16,000 for a new total of $40,000, less the $1,600 for $38,4000, assuming your deficit is intrest free. This was the great savings Republicans were offering and the Democrats thougt it was too drastic? And we, the general public think there's any difference with which side of the aisle politicians sit when they're raping our wallets?[/color]

[Winchester]

We can have our caek and eat it too! The caek is not a lie! All we need is more legislation! Legislation will multiply our loaves and fishes! Go bureaucrats!

[Groo the Wanderer]

razzle dazzle post, bro

i started to read it, but i took an arrow to the knee...

Edited April 19, 2012 by Groo the Wanderer

[kujo]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1334840351' post='2420569']
Why did you post this drivel? Matt Bai is progressive/Democat leaning journalist with no bones as an independent thinker. The article doesn't begin to actually appear to be thoughtful and fair. He immediately dismisses Boehner's side about as blantantly calling it a "[i]version[/i]" and doesn't really describe Obama's position. It's just a he said/she said, and he only discusses on side.

I cereal guyed when he said Boehner got busy in defense mode only when Boehner found out Bai was going to write an article. Ohhhh. We got a bad arse here!

And how ridiculous is this description: "[color="#000000"]the nation’s nearly $16 trillion debt, then a series of onerous budget cuts — worth about $1.2 trillion over 10 years,". If i get the numbers he's talking about in the article and put it in personal budget perspective,, imagine you owe $16,000, and you want to cut your budge out lays by $1,600 over ten years ($160 per year), but at the same time giving yourself permision to borrow an additional $2,400 per year (increasing your dept limit). So in 10 years, you add $24,000 to the $16,000 for a new total of $40,000, less the $1,600 for $38,4000, assuming your deficit is intrest free. This was the great savings Republicans were offering and the Democrats thougt it was too drastic? And we, the general public think there's any difference with which side of the aisle politicians sit when they're raping our wallets?[/color]
[/quote]

So let me get this straight:

Anything that doesn't agree with your generic political opinion is "drivel?"

Do you only read articles and books that you agree with? Sounds like an echo chamber to me.

[kujo]

Sounds like a pretty good summation of the childishness and utter lack of leadership of the so-called "leaders" of each party. Democrat and Republican alike, they're all a bunch of self-aggrandizing puppets, more concerned with [i]appearing[/i] tough than actually [i]being[/i] tough. They're a brood of vipers, and we should summarily divest ourselves with the whole lot of them.

Edited April 19, 2012 by kujo

[Anomaly]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1334845532' post='2420592']
So let me get this straight:

Anything that doesn't agree with your generic political opinion is "drivel?"

Do you only read articles and books that you agree with? Sounds like an echo chamber to me.
[/quote]Testy much?
Nah, I listen or read both sides and have no problem agreeing to disagreeing. People have different opinions and conclusions and arrive at them with valid reasoning and evaluation. But come on, there's got to be some sort of intellectual honesty. Bai's not a dumb guy and his blogs and articles have made me think on occaision, but this particular article really is drivel (based on my personal fixation with pandering to my own ego).

[kujo]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1334846752' post='2420597']
Testy much?
Nah, I listen or read both sides and have no problem agreeing to disagreeing. People have different opinions and conclusions and arrive at them with valid reasoning and evaluation. But come on, there's got to be some sort of intellectual honesty. Bai's not a dumb guy and his blogs and articles have made me think on occaision, but this particular article really is drivel (based on my personal fixation with pandering to my own ego).
[/quote]

Dunno if you've noticed, but I'm a bit of a loose cannon. Im not very subtle, at least not when posting on the interwebz.

In any case, read my post above as a refutation of your choice of descriptive words for this article. You call it drivel, I say it's fairly representative of the sort of behavior the infants in poopy diapers who "lead" this country routinely engage in.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1334846948' post='2420599']
Dunno if you've noticed, but I'm a bit of a loose cannon. Im not very subtle, at least not when posting on the interwebz.

In any case, read my post above as a refutation of your choice of descriptive words for this article. You call it drivel, I say it's fairly representative of the sort of behavior the infants in poopy diapers who "lead" this country routinely engage in.
[/quote]Did you finish reading my original post. I'm no fean of political "leaders", either party. Personally I think politicians stir people up about BS while they groom their egos spending our money and enriching themselves. One side spends money really, really, really fast on very, very, very stupid croutons, while the other side spends money really, really fast on very, very, very stupid croutons. Some difference, but not so much as we'd notice.

Besides, how can I take you seriously when you try and copy winnie's similie of infants eating their own turds calling politicians infants in poopy diapers. NOBODY takes winnie seriously.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Anomaly

[Winchester]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1334847391' post='2420601']


Besides, how can I take you seriously when you try and copy winnie's similie of infants eating their own turds calling politicians infants in poopy diapers. NOBODY takes winnie seriously.
[/quote]
WTH?

[Papist]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1334846618' post='2420596']
Sounds like a pretty good summation of the childishness and utter lack of leadership of the so-called "leaders" of each party. Democrat and Republican alike, they're all a bunch of self-aggrandizing puppets, more concerned with [i]appearing[/i] tough than actually [i]being[/i] tough. They're a brood of vipers, and we should summarily divest ourselves with the whole lot of them.
[/quote]
In other words, do a Ctrl+Alt+Del... I LIKE IT!!!!

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1334847650' post='2420603']
WTH?
[/quote]Your post in the Ron Paul thread. My bad. Your comment about infants eating their turds is unfortunately stuck in my head and is making me chuckle and feel ill at the same time.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1334848470' post='2420613']
Your post in the Ron Paul thread. My bad. Your comment about infants eating their turds is unfortunately stuck in my head and is making me chuckle and feel ill at the same time.
[/quote]
No, no, no.
[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1334847391' post='2420601']
NOBODY takes winnie seriously.
[/quote]
WTH

[img]http://clean.alltheragefaces.com/img/faces/large/misc-are-you-flooping-kidding-me-clean-l.png[/img]

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1334849186' post='2420615']
No, no, no.

WTH

[img]http://clean.alltheragefaces.com/img/faces/large/misc-are-you-flooping-kidding-me-clean-l.png[/img]
[/quote]I checked, I've reached my limit of apologies for the day. I shouldn't have wasted the earlier one.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1334849310' post='2420617']
I checked, I've reached my limit of apologies for the day. I shouldn't have wasted the earlier one.
[/quote]
Tomorrow, then.