Succession Of Lies

[Groo the Wanderer]

still haven;t answered my question :pout:

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

[quote name='reyb' timestamp='1334880645' post='2420971']
If you want to teach us, please teach us properly. Can you please tell us where is the word ‘second coming’ in that verse?
[/quote]

Unsure dude, it's an act of faith.Jesus said he will return the way he has left. Unsure exactly what that means but i believe the holy word and that he will come again.

[reyb]

Let us discuss these things plainly.

In your tradition, Luke is not an eyewitness of Jesus Christ. He is like a perfect news reporter gathering information about Jesus from first hand witnesses like Mary, Peter and the like. As a result the book of Luke is like a complete report of information of events, doings, miracles, teaching, parables, prophesies and passion of Jesus Christ. (This Jesus is the one I called ‘historical Jesus’ just to give distinction to another Jesus which I am about to tell you).

On the other hand and to me in particular, Luke is an eyewitness of the Jesus Christ and his book is just a story and not true to life story. The Jesus Christ I am saying here is not the historical Jesus but the other Jesus as mentioned by Apostle Paul in 1 Cor 11:4. Luke made this story about the mystery of the coming of Christ in a form of reality so that we will learn to seek the real one, and in doing it he included some of written narrations of previous Christ’s witnesses like Moses, Jonah and others.

What I am trying to say is this : Moses, Jonah and other writers are all witnesses of the same Jesus, and for that reason, they wrote about him although in different forms (in narrating about him) because it was written for different audiences and in different times which usually fit to their present religious framework.

Let us take for example Jonah. He narrated the coming of the son of man in a story of him being inside a great fish for three days and three nights. Now, to consider this kind of narration as a true to life story is truly laughable because it is like a cartoon story or a day dreamers’ story. Nonetheless, whether it is a miraculous true to life story or a type of mythology, that is the way Jonah narrates this coming of Christ being himself as a witness. Moses too did it when he narrates this coming of Christ in his story of a burning bus in the sacred mountain. But if you will try to seek for Moses’ burning bush or Jonah’s great fish, you will never see them. It is the same thing in Luke’s storey, you will never see this Jesus of Jerusalem. You will never find where he lived and his supposed to be tomb. Where are his supposed to be brothers and sisters, 12 disciples and others, his surrogate father Joseph and his mother Mary. Even a news report about the resurrected saints (I called zombies) as mentioned in Matthew 27:52-53 is nowhere to be found in any historical records. Again, as I have said, you will never see any mark of this coming of historical Jesus because it is just a story.

The true Jesus Christ is not yet revealed to you and only God can do it.

Edited April 22, 2012 by reyb

[cmotherofpirl]

Jesus Christ is found in all 4 Gospel accounts, and has already been revealed there and in His Church.

[reyb]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1335053555' post='2421759']
Jesus Christ is found in all 4 Gospel accounts, and has already been revealed there and in His Church.
[/quote]


When someone ask you, Do you want us to believe what you believe without asking questions whether it is true of not? You will answer, ‘no’. Now, it seems it is wrong to ask you if it is against your accepted belief.

As I have told you if you want to teach us, teach us properly. If you want us to believe what you believe, show to us that you are in line with the truth of whatever you are saying.

I know you believe in the truthfulness of the historical Jesus as the Christ of God but can you show to us any record about the ‘resurrected saints’ – it is the same as all dead in a cemetery come back to life when Jesus died on the cross thus it is very impossible having no record at all if this is a historical event - as mentioned in the book of Matthew?

I already told you. You bring billions of souls in front of the judgment seat of God without the hope of knowing him because you lied to them by saying ‘God is mystery that cannot be known to man’ while Moses, Paul and other witnesses have known God.

Let us give our all honesty in here. If you do not want to hear different opinion from whatever you already accepted then do not invite us here.

[Groo the Wanderer]

reyb - please check out the defense directory. it is fairly obvious you do not want to listen to anything anyone here types to you. you fail to answer questions posed to you, you ask the same thing over and over repeating yourself redundantly again and again when someone responds.

perhaps you will respect the proofs offered up to you by the plethora of authors in the DD. if you are really here on a quest for truth, you have to be open to hearing it. i shall waste no more of your time trying to engage you in a dialogue that is in fact a monologue.

i pray for you. i ask you to pray for me and all the pham.

god bless

Edited April 22, 2012 by Groo the Wanderer

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='reyb' timestamp='1335056406' post='2421765']
When someone ask you, Do you want us to believe what you believe without asking questions whether it is true of not? You will answer, ‘no’. Now, it seems it is wrong to ask you if it is against your accepted belief.

As I have told you if you want to teach us, teach us properly. If you want us to believe what you believe, show to us that you are in line with the truth of whatever you are saying.

I know you believe in the truthfulness of the historical Jesus as the Christ of God but can you show to us any record about the ‘resurrected saints’ – it is the same as all dead in a cemetery come back to life when Jesus died on the cross thus it is very impossible having no record at all if this is a historical event - as mentioned in the book of Matthew?

I already told you. You bring billions of souls in front of the judgment seat of God without the hope of knowing him because you lied to them by saying ‘God is mystery that cannot be known to man’ while Moses, Paul and other witnesses have known God.

Let us give our all honesty in here. If you do not want to hear different opinion from whatever you already accepted then do not invite us here.
[/quote]
Meeting God as Moses did doesn't mean you know God, it means you met Him. God is the Creator of All that Is, Was and Ever Shall Be. We are mortals, we can only "know" what tiny infinitesimal part of God that He wants us to.

St. Luke was a companion of St Paul. St Paul met Jesus.
St John knew Jesus.
First-hand testimony as written in Scripture.

I don't have to show proof of resurrected people to know it happened, because Scripture says it happened. Somehow I doubt if CNN was around back them to write a newspaper article.

[Basilisa Marie]

[quote][color=#282828]Let us give our all honesty in here. If you do not want to hear different opinion from whatever you already accepted then do not invite us here. [/color][/quote]

Don't invite dialogue if you don't want to honestly discuss and attempt to reach a kind of mutual understanding. It's a two way street, dear.

[reyb]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' timestamp='1335060616' post='2421777']
reyb - please check out the defense directory. it is fairly obvious you do not want to listen to anything anyone here types to you. you fail to answer questions posed to you, you ask the same thing over and over repeating yourself redundantly again and again when someone responds.

perhaps you will respect the proofs offered up to you by the plethora of authors in the DD. if you are really here on a quest for truth, you have to be open to hearing it. i shall waste no more of your time trying to engage you in a dialogue that is in fact a monologue.

i pray for you. i ask you to pray for me and all the pham.

god bless
[/quote]

Please read my previous post. I already answered your question.

[reyb]

[quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1335065034' post='2421799']
Don't invite dialogue if you don't want to honestly discuss and attempt to reach a kind of mutual understanding. It's a two way street, dear.
[/quote]


Don’t you not realize, I know your belief? Please read again my previous post.

[reyb]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1335061941' post='2421788']
Meeting God as Moses did doesn't mean you know God, it means you met Him. God is the Creator of All that Is, Was and Ever Shall Be. We are mortals, we can only "know" what tiny infinitesimal part of God that He wants us to.

[b]St. Luke was a companion of St Paul. St Paul met Jesus.[/b]
St John knew Jesus.
First-hand testimony as written in Scripture.

I don't have to show proof of resurrected people to know it happened, because Scripture says it happened. Somehow I doubt if CNN was around back them to write a newspaper article.
[/quote]

Meaning, Luke is not an eyewitness of Jesus Christ. Am I correct?
-------------------------

Knowing Christ is the same as knowing God (see John 8:19) and seeing Christ is the same as seeing God.(see John 14:8-9). Now, you said ...

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1335061941' post='2421788']
Meeting God as Moses did doesn't mean you know God, it means you met Him. God is the Creator of All that Is, Was and Ever Shall Be. We are mortals, we can only "know" what tiny infinitesimal part of God that He wants us to.
[/quote]

Are you trying to justify that after Moses ‘met’ God nevertheless, God remain a mystery to him. So, my question is this:
Is Moses a witness of Christ or not?

Edited April 22, 2012 by reyb

[reyb]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1335061941' post='2421788']
I don't have to show proof of resurrected people to know it happened, because Scripture says it happened. Somehow I doubt if CNN was around back them to write a newspaper article.
[/quote]


First, I am not expecting something like CNN or whatever during that time. But having an event like this -resurrection of the dead in a cemetery- is not a small thing to ignore by anyone. so there must be marks or proof of this historical event in whatever form. But there is none.

Again, since you believe these things are historical events. Please tell me if these events (see verses below) happened with chronological order. (Historical events are always in chronological order because of time)
--------
[indent=1]
[b]The Death of Jesus[/b][/indent]
[indent=1]
[b]45[/b] From noon until three in the afternoon darkness came over all the land. [b]46[/b] About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, [i]“Eli, Eli,[/i][b][c][/b] [i]lema[/i] [i]sabachthani?”[/i] (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).[b][d][/b][/indent]
[indent=1]
[b]47[/b] When some of those standing there heard this, they said, “He’s calling Elijah.”[/indent]
[indent=1]
[b]48[/b] Immediately one of them ran and got a sponge. He filled it with wine vinegar, put it on a staff, and offered it to Jesus to drink. [b]49[/b] The rest said, “Now leave him alone. Let’s see if Elijah comes to save him.”[/indent]
[indent=1][b]50[/b] And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.[/indent]
[indent=1][b]51[/b] At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split [b]52[/b] and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. [b]53[/b] They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and[b][e][/b] went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

[b]54[/b] When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and all that had happened, they were terrified, and exclaimed, “Surely he was the Son of God!”

[b]55[/b] Many women were there, watching from a distance. They had followed Jesus from Galilee to care for his needs. [b]56[/b] Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Joseph,[b][f][/b] and the mother of Zebedee’s sons.[/indent]
---------------------------
What I am saying is this:
Did the centurion saw the following?[list=1]
[*]death of Jesus, and then
[*]the temple curtain torn into two, and then
[*]the earth shook, and then
[*]rocks split, and then
[*]the tombs broke open, and then
[*]the resurrection of the dead, and then
[*]After Jesus resurrection they (resurrected saints) went to holy city and appeared to many people.
[/list]
Again, Did the centurion saw all of these things?

Edited April 22, 2012 by reyb

[reyb]

[quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1335065034' post='2421799']
Don't invite dialogue if you don't want to honestly discuss and attempt to reach a kind of mutual understanding. It's a two way street, dear.
[/quote]


[quote name='Amppax' timestamp='1334763592' post='2420201']
Just what way is that exactly?
[/quote]

As far as I can recall many Catholics are saying, they see Jesus Christ in the Eucharist, in their Church, in their Priest and brothers or whatever. Thus, I said ‘if you really have faith as precious as theirs why you failed to see Him in the same way all these witnesses saw Him? (This is my response to Papist).

I give emphasis on ‘seeing Christ in the same way Paul, Moses, Jonah and other witnesses saw Him’ because it is without doubt they truly saw Him and not apparently seeing Christ by other means.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

reyb yes the dead did rise upon jesus death but it is not in the sense of the final judgement and the second coming as far as i'm aware a bit more like the trailer for a movie.Bad example i now. Which leads me to ask indeed, was this a temporary or do these still walk among us or did they ascend ?

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Jesus' authority is upon the most precious body and blood. It is biblical,the last supper, and whom has been given this authority to celebrate the mass? The Apostles/Priests.