kujo Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) [quote name='add' timestamp='1335169365' post='2422077'] It is not wrong to; live with a member of the opposite sex without the benefit of a marriage blessed by the Catholic Church? When did this change? [/quote] [left]No one is talking about cohabitation of a couple prior to marriage. We're talking about opposite sex housemates who are NOT in a romantic relationship.[/left] Try and keep up, darling. /TomHardy'sVoiceInInception Edited April 23, 2012 by kujo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 [quote name='add' timestamp='1335169365' post='2422077'] The Seventh Precept of the Church is opinion? It is not wrong to; Abandoned my spouse and family by separation or divorce? It is not wrong to; live with a member of the opposite sex without the benefit of a marriage blessed by the Catholic Church? When did this change? [/quote] THIS is what you said: [color=#282828][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]Living in the same domicile with a unrelated adult member of the opposite sex is sinful [/background][/color] By your standards an 85 year old priest and his 70 year old housekeeper under the same roof would be sinful. Divorce is also not and of itself sinful, especially with no fault divorce being the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 [quote name='add' timestamp='1335169365' post='2422077'] The Seventh Precept of the Church is opinion? It is not wrong to; Abandoned my spouse and family by separation or divorce? It is not wrong to; live with a member of the opposite sex without the benefit of a marriage blessed by the Catholic Church? When did this change? [/quote] It is not that cut and dry. Divorce is not synonymous with abandonment. For example, a spouse is not required to live in a situation that puts/keeps in danger. And if I share a dwelling with my sister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) [quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1335144246' post='2422022'] Nope. This may be your personal opinion, but its not Catholic teaching. [/quote] If a ship starts sinking you can only bail it for so long before you have to jump on the life raft and get the hell out of there i go through malls where there are women whom are scantly clad,when temptation begins to oppress me i high tail it out of there. I guess one would hope when having an opposite gender housey if temptation began to dominate one would have to find alternate accomadation. Just as if i'm about to kill myself or kill my housey or neighbours if that murderous feeling won't subside i need to take off like a harrier and jet. Hope my opinion helps in any manner, but also possibly in this instance of the gender bender one is holier and one is less holy but neither un-holy like the whole biblical hair matter and possibly biblical tatoo matter and why not throw in another 1 i haven't seen in the holy bible yet , piercings. Hope all that helps me you and that other person over there. If not let me know because i don't wan't to burn in hell for eternity(seriously.) Onward christian Souls. JESUS iz LORD. Edited April 23, 2012 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinytherese Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Divorce certainly has negative affects in our culture, but technically getting a divorce isn't sinful. One could be separated or divorced yet live celibate lives because they are still married sacramentally. It's when people try to remarry without an annulment that's the sin because that would be adultery. An annulment is an official declaration that the marriage, though lawful from a civil perspective at the beginning, never existed sacramentally. Any children had during the marriage are legitimate since again the marriage was lawful but not sacramental. A divorce is needed before the annulment process can begin in the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cappie Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 This is not germain to the topic as it started but someone mentioned Divorce and so it may be timely to be reminded of the Catechism of the Catholic Church: Divorce 2382 The Lord Jesus insisted on the original intention of the Creator who willed that marriage be indissoluble. He abrogates the accommodations that had slipped into the old Law. Between the baptized, "a ratified and consummated marriage cannot be dissolved by any human power or for any reason other than death." 2383 The separation of spouses while maintaining the marriage bond [b]can be legitimate[/b] in certain cases provided for by canon law. If civil divorce remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights, the care of the children, or the protection of inheritance, it can be tolerated and does not constitute a moral offense. 2384 [i]Divorce is a grave offense against the natural law. It claims to break the contract, to which the spouses freely consented, to live with each other till death. Divorce does injury to the covenant of salvation, of which sacramental marriage is the sign.[/i] Contracting a new union, even if it is recognized by civil law, adds to the gravity of the rupture: the remarried spouse is then in a situation of public and permanent adultery: If a husband, separated from his wife, approaches another woman, he is an adulterer because he makes that woman commit adultery, and the woman who lives with him is an adulteress, because she has drawn another's husband to herself. 2385 Divorce is immoral also because it introduces disorder into the family and into society. This disorder brings grave harm to the deserted spouse, to children traumatized by the separation of their parents and often torn between them, and because of its contagious effect which makes it truly a plague on society. 2386 It can happen that one of the spouses is the innocent victim of a divorce decreed by civil law; this spouse therefore has not contravened the moral law. There is a considerable difference between a spouse who has sincerely tried to be faithful to the sacrament of marriage and is unjustly abandoned, and one who through his own grave fault destroys a canonically valid marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliforniaCatholic Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 (edited) [size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]I may be a little older than a lot of the members here, and therefore have seen some very frightening changes. Too many young Catholics are leaning from society that homosexual activity is okay. It most definitely is not. There are two main aspects: The sinfulness of it, and the pyscological disorder.[/font][/size] [size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]1) The sinfulness of it is plain and clear from the Bible and the Catechism. Some folks try to distort what the Bible says and cherry-pick what the Catechism says to excuse it, but homosexual sex is inexcusable. This does not mean we should hate homosexuals, but as with any mortal sin, you love the sinner but hate the sin.[/font][/size] [size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]2) Same sex attaraction is a disorder, not only accordiong to the Catechism, but according to the American Psychological Association (APA) for most of its history, until recently.[/font][/size] [size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]For some folks though, this disorder is now the "non-disorder formerly known as disorder." It was a disorder in the DSM I and II published by the APA. But in the last publication, DSM IV, it was removed as a disorder. Why?[/font][/size] [size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Protests by gay rights activists against the APA began in 1970 when the organization held its convention in San Francisco. The activists disrupted the conference by interrupting speakers and shouting down and ridiculing psychiatrists who viewed homosexuality as a mental disorder. In 1971, gay rights activist Frank Kameny worked with the Gay Liberation Front collective to demonstrate against the APA's convention. At the 1971 conference, Kameny grabbed the microphone and yelled, "Psychiatry is the enemy incarnate. Psychiatry has waged a relentless war of extermination against us. You may take this as a declaration of war against you." To put is bluntly, the American Psychological Association buckled and caved to protestors, and therefore have no legitimacy now.[/font][/size] [size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]So the APA can be, and is, wrong. The current APA thinks that they were "wrong back then," and "right now." But certainly, the opposite can be true, that is was right back then and wrong now. I think that they were right before and wrong now because they now fear liberal retaliation and politcial correctness that did not exist before.[/font][/size] Edited April 24, 2012 by CaliforniaCatholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 (edited) There was a ti[color=#282828][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]me when we thought the earth was flat, too...[/font][/color] Edited April 24, 2012 by kujo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 how did marriage slip into here i missed that, just to alieviate any possible confusion i wasn't talking about marriage in any of my posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliforniaCatholic Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1335274432' post='2422640'] There was a ti[color=#282828][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]me when we thought the earth was flat, too...[/font][/color] [/quote] That comment is not helpful. The earth is not flat. Homosexuality IS a disorder. Or do you think the Catechism is wrong: [color=#0000CD][b]CCC 2357[/b] Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "[u][b]homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered[/b][/u]."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 (edited) [quote name='CaliforniaCatholic' timestamp='1335276347' post='2422655'] That comment is not helpful. The earth is not flat. Homosexuality IS a disorder. Or do you think the Catechism is wrong: [color=#0000CD][b]CCC 2357[/b] Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "[u][b]homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered[/b][/u]."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.[/color] [/quote] I must add nore is one to deliberate suffering (ie: name calling) of any manner upon a person suffering from such grave disorders, compounding the issue and possibly causing more harm than good upon the afflicted person/s. But that is my opinion not church doctrine. Edited April 24, 2012 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 (edited) [quote name='cappie' timestamp='1335248753' post='2422520'] This is not germain to the topic as it started but someone mentioned Divorce and so it may be timely to be reminded of the Catechism of the Catholic Church: Divorce 2382 The Lord Jesus insisted on the original intention of the Creator who willed that marriage be indissoluble. He abrogates the accommodations that had slipped into the old Law. [b]Between the baptized, "a ratified and consummated marriage cannot be dissolved by any human power or for any reason other than death."[/b] [/quote]A lot of things the Catholic Church teaches is hard line, not just about homosexuality. Why are people surprised? Edited April 24, 2012 by Anomaly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Thank you Father. This is why I said divorce is not a sin: [color=#282828]2386 It can happen that one of the spouses is the innocent victim of a divorce decreed by civil law; this spouse therefore has not contravened the moral law. There is a considerable difference between a spouse who has sincerely tried to be faithful to the sacrament of marriage and is unjustly abandoned, and one who through his own grave fault destroys a canonically valid marriage. [/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 [quote name='CaliforniaCatholic' timestamp='1335276347' post='2422655'] Or do you think the Catechism is wrong: [/quote] Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 [quote name='CaliforniaCatholic' timestamp='1335276347' post='2422655'] That comment is not helpful. The earth is not flat. Homosexuality IS a disorder. Or do you think the Catechism is wrong: [color=#0000CD][b]CCC 2357[/b] Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "[u][b]homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered[/b][/u]."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.[/color] [/quote] Also, the Catechism doesn't say that it is "a" disorder, but rather that the sexual inclinations experienced by a homosexual male or female are not properly ordered, in the sense that a man is not supposed to desire another man, or a woman another woman. According to this thinking, there is a natural order of things, and any deviations from that is out of order, or "disordered." The Catechism is not a psychological journal, or a medical textbook. When people pretend it is, they do so at their own peril. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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