savvy Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 [quote]Until your marriage in October, her use of these pills is licit.[/quote] Are you saying contraception is okay if one is not married? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='savvy' timestamp='1334274228' post='2416757'] Are you saying contraception is okay if one is not married? [/quote]I think she's saying it's ok because they aren't sexually active, and therefore isn't contraception Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='savvy' timestamp='1334274228' post='2416757'] Are you saying contraception is okay if one is not married? [/quote] The pill can licitly used for medical conditions, although its better to treat the cause of the problem instead of masking the symptoms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) Using the pill for PCOS is a HORRIBLE idea...HORRIBLE. The pill does nothing to treat PCOS. It simply masks the symptoms by making your body have a period. There are other solutions out there. My wife has/had PCOS so I know from experience. There is no reason once you are married and having sex why she needs to be on birth control for her PCOS when there are other, non abortion inducing drugs to be on. Drugs that won't kill a baby. Talk to her doctor, research online or personal message me for other options. But don't have her stay on birth control once your having sex, there are other options out there. Edited April 13, 2012 by havok579257 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groo the Wanderer Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Look into other options. If options are available and you don;t bother to look because it is more convenient not to, then your intent is slothful and likely sinful. Don't allow yourself to be deceived by the quacks out there. The culture of death is rampant. Refuse to be a part of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autumn Dusk Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='Groo the Wanderer' timestamp='1334311601' post='2416913'] Look into other options. If options are available and you don;t bother to look because it is more convenient not to, then your intent is slothful and likely sinful. Don't allow yourself to be deceived by the quacks out there. The culture of death is rampant. Refuse to be a part of it. [/quote] This is a bit harsh. You have to realize that teen girls are fed the wonder pill idea from a young age, and are never EVER given any alternitives but suffering. And when you've suffered through the pain of a REALLY bad period you'd about sell your soul to fix it, ironically. The anxiety and fear that a woman faces comming off of something that has substantially benefited her life is HUGE. Some women are in so much pain that they go to the hospitial and recieve morphine, that they pass out, and have other problems. And we're not talking shirking violets either but tough women. Some do choose to have their ovaries removed and this is ok becuase the overies are diseased, but this also renders the woman infertile. Calling modern medicine a "quack" is harsh. Some of it is run by drug companies and misguided, but most doctors are caring people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew-Memphis Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='Autumn Dusk' timestamp='1334323219' post='2416943'] This is a bit harsh. You have to realize that teen girls are fed the wonder pill idea from a young age, and are never EVER given any alternitives but suffering. And when you've suffered through the pain of a REALLY bad period you'd about sell your soul to fix it, ironically. The anxiety and fear that a woman faces comming off of something that has substantially benefited her life is HUGE. Some women are in so much pain that they go to the hospitial and recieve morphine, that they pass out, and have other problems. And we're not talking shirking violets either but tough women. Some do choose to have their ovaries removed and this is ok becuase the overies are diseased, but this also renders the woman infertile. Calling modern medicine a "quack" is harsh. Some of it is run by drug companies and misguided, but most doctors are caring people. [/quote] Very well put, Autumn. Its ideas like that make people wonder why we are stuck in the Stone Age. God gave us modern medicine for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisa Marie Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 The only thing I'd like to add is that I've heard lately of a bunch of women having very serious reactions to Yaz in particular. Like Autumn and others have said, there's nothing morally wrong with using the Pill as medicine as long as no one is "benefiting" from the contraceptive properties. But be careful with Yaz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I would definitely get a second professional opinion on Yaz. My wife was recommended something similar by the most prominent Catholic institutions in our area, but we got a second opinion and he said that the first recommendation wasn't necessary and that there were other treatments. I think there are multiple options for PCOS, and sometimes it's not necessary to control at all. I don't know anything about Yaz, but as long as it's not an abortifacient your wife (when she becomes such) is fine in taking it (if it's the only resort), but there might be other viable alternatives for you to consider. If it's an abortifacient, then having intercourse with her while she's on the pill might be cause for grave concern. It's one thing for a medicine to prevent pregnancy and another for it to terminate pregnancy at any stage. Look into this as best you can. Also, beware that some of the medicines prescribed for PCOS have other consequences that might make it not worthwhile to take the medicine. I just advise caution with these sorts of problems and get a second opinion if you can. My wife did and we're very happy she did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autumn Dusk Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='Drew-Memphis' timestamp='1334339718' post='2417102'] Very well put, Autumn. Its ideas like that make people wonder why we are stuck in the Stone Age. God gave us modern medicine for a reason. [/quote] Please don't take my support of the emotinal issues as approval of post-wedding birth control use. Right now your fiancee is likely minimally harming her body...but using birth control while having sex a child could die or suffer ill affects. It's a serious thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='qfnol31' timestamp='1334343485' post='2417185'] I would definitely get a second professional opinion on Yaz. My wife was recommended something similar by the most prominent Catholic institutions in our area, but we got a second opinion and he said that the first recommendation wasn't necessary and that there were other treatments. I think there are multiple options for PCOS, and sometimes it's not necessary to control at all. I don't know anything about Yaz, but as long as it's not an abortifacient your wife (when she becomes such) is fine in taking it (if it's the only resort), but there might be other viable alternatives for you to consider. If it's an abortifacient, then having intercourse with her while she's on the pill might be cause for grave concern. It's one thing for a medicine to prevent pregnancy and another for it to terminate pregnancy at any stage. Look into this as best you can. Also, beware that some of the medicines prescribed for PCOS have other consequences that might make it not worthwhile to take the medicine. I just advise caution with these sorts of problems and get a second opinion if you can. My wife did and we're very happy she did. [/quote]Q, all hormonal contraception is potentially abortifacient. The drug info for Yaz states this, as well (not in those words, but in saying that one of the mechanisms is that it changes the endometrial lining to make it less favorable for implantation should conception occur). That is a secondary mechanism, but there is no way to know how often that happens. As I said before, I fully understand the fear of going off the pill/looking for an alternative treatment. I'm sure that's even more true when the doc has said she could lose the ovary if she isn't on the pill. Doctors do try their best, but are also heavily influenced by the drug companies. When I worked at an OB/GYN office, drug reps came by every week with free samples, and bout lunch for everyone. It would be very difficult to withstand the constant barrage, I think. My doctor never discussed an alternative, even though she knew my problem wasn't hormonal, as she'd tested my hormone levels. There was never a discussion at all, and in fact I was often given the free samples that the drug companies left. When she ran out of the samples of one, she switched me to another. I wish I'd questioned it, but I'd grown up just trusting the doc without question, in part because my grandfather and uncle were doctors. Now, I question everything, not to be belligerent, but to ensure the treatment is necessary and appropriate. Of course I trust that my doctor has more knowledge than I, but I also need to ensure that I understand what he's saying and why, and need to know of alternatives in order to make an informed choice. I just would really encourage your fiancée to ask about alternatives, too. The answer might surprise her. (oh, side note. With one doctor's office when I phoned to ask about alternatives, I got an earful from the nurse about how the Church couldn't dictate what I did with my body, and she never gave the question over to the doc, which out me off asking again for some time. Sometimes you encounter such things, but it's an entirely appropriate question to ask). I wish you the best on your upcoming wedding, Drew. God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 (edited) Drew, I wanted to add that I'm happy to talk over PM and email, too, if you or your fiancée wish. I'm not an expert on PCOS, just a woman who was mistakenly put on the pill and regrets not questioning it, and is now an NFP instructor. God bless Edited April 14, 2012 by Archaeology cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nola Seminarian Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 [quote name='Drew-Memphis' timestamp='1334245696' post='2416398'] Hey Pham! Quick question from my phone. So bear with me. Of course, we all know about the Church's stance on artificial contraception, namely "The Pill". My question stems from my own situation. My fiancée and I are getting married in October and she has unfortunately been diagnosed with PCOS. For you all that are unfamiliar, this is Poly Cystic Ovarian Syndrome. For this, she was prescribed Yaz, to regulate her cycle, which was every 2-3 months and very irregular. She has to stay on this unless she were to have her ovaries removed. What is the church's position on this? [/quote] it is entirely acceptable to take this as a medicine because it is not your intention to take it as contraception. if this medicine as a result of the way it is supposed to work as a means of contraception causes abortion (as many Artificial Birth Control pills do) as one of the ways it controls birth, then you are to abstain from sex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 (edited) [quote name='savvy' timestamp='1334274228' post='2416757'] Are you saying contraception is okay if one is not married? [/quote] Contraception is a matter of intent. One can take a bottle of sleeping pills to commit suicide. There is no problem with taking one or two to induce sleep. Another application is that an abortion is immoral but if a neccessary medical procedure ends the life of the unborn child that is not immoral. I.e. an ectopic pregnancy can be treated with surgery. [url="http://www.cuf.org/faithfacts/details_view.asp?ffID=57"]http://www.cuf.org/faithfacts/details_view.asp?ffID=57[/url] Edited April 19, 2012 by thessalonian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fides' Jack Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 [quote name='Drew-Memphis' timestamp='1334247365' post='2416410'] I'm of the personal opinion that God judges your intent. We aren't using it to avoid pregnancy but due to her irregular cycles and medical condition. If we were using it for birth control, that would be different. Additionally, NFP would be next to impossible with an irregular cycle. [/quote] [quote name='thessalonian' timestamp='1334854352' post='2420648'] Contraception is a matter of intent. One can take a bottle of sleeping pills to commit suicide. There is no problem with taking one or two to induce sleep. [/quote] You guys probably already know this, but I just want to clarify. The morality of an action is never [i]just[/i] about intent. There are 3 things that have to be in place (all 3 must be morally good) for a morally good action:[list=1] [*]intent (or goal) [*]action (the actual action being done) [*]circumstances [/list] So, even if you're using the pill for a medically licit reason, if there's a chance that contraception can take place then it is not morally licit. The only way to be taking the pill morally (at all - before or after marriage) is to refrain from sexual intercourse. Of course, morally speaking, refraining from sexual intercourse is required before marriage, anyway. So yes, God judges your intent. But He also judges your actions, and He also weighs the circumstances around those actions into His judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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