Question

[Byzantine]

I know dUSt doesn't want stuff like this in VS, but I was wondering: how does one discern marriage? It seems like people don't talk about discerning it like other vocations.

[Lil Red]

perhaps because you don't discern it like you do for the priesthood or religious life?

[Autumn Dusk]

I dunno if that's true. It may be different than discerning diocean priesthood but I know a nun and som CFR's who would swear to just how dang similar it is.

Think of the order as a person. Each has its charasims and faults.

Part of deciding "is this for me" is very normal. However those who discern arent bogged down with google results for hary krishnas and jihadists. If they want to know if something is funky in an order...if eating marshmellos on mondays is a practice of the church...they have a phorum and a ton of Catholic resources.

Others may point to the problem of singlehood. But you know? As a 20 something adult I dont see it. If your fairly normal and live within a reasonable distance to a city there is enough for Catholics. Not alot but enough.

Those in a relationships are dropped like hot potatoes. Singles resent them and older married just sit there with dopey "oh I remember when"

There is no Catholic place where a catholic can ask about discerning a Catholic marrage. How to discuss NFP. How often should you pray together and go to Mass? How do you combine two households...which seems to be the most relevant since I just may be the last single person with a serious boyfriend who actually lives at her own place. Do you know what happens when you google trying to find out signs your boyfriend isnt ok? You should be able to easily tell by your sex life. So not helpful

[ImageTrinity]

Yeah, I don't get it. Given the divorce rates in the US, I think the lack of resources for singles discerning marriage and engaged and married couples is appalling. When my husband and I went to our engaged encounter weekend, we met couples who were a few weeks away from their wedding and hadn't discussed whether or not they were going to have children, what they thought about birth control, whether they intended to raise kids Catholic and a number of other huge, huge issues. There were individuals who had no clue what their future spouse thought about faith, values, sexuality or family life. It was incredibly sad.

I say if we want to encourage vocations to the priesthood and religious life, start by giving couples the support they need to properly discern the vocation of marriage.

[ImageTrinity]

^Not intended as a criticism of PM (I'm sure questions about discerning marriage would be welcome in the NFP board)...it's just a pet peeve of mine!

[Autumn Dusk]

[quote name='ImageTrinity' timestamp='1334147635' post='2415704']
I say if we want to encourage vocations to the priesthood and religious life, start by giving couples the support they need to properly discern the vocation of marriage.
[/quote]

Yep!!!!! I saw an article the other week about how MOST women entering orders these days came from strong Catholic familes of 4+. Ironically most guys entering seminary came from small famlies and have a mixed background. Anyhoo.

The other thing I'm feeling is that I LOVE the idea of a montesori education, especally one that encompasses indivitual identity in groups (working at a university I see the desprite need for that) I want my future children to be educated that way...which means not homeschooling. And so I feel like I'm going to be rejected by the "good" Catholic community.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Autumn Dusk' timestamp='1334144406' post='2415693']
There is no Catholic place where a catholic can ask about discerning a Catholic marrage. How to discuss NFP. How often should you pray together and go to Mass? How do you combine two households...which seems to be the most relevant since I just may be the last single person with a serious boyfriend who actually lives at her own place. Do you know what happens when you google trying to find out signs your boyfriend isnt ok? You should be able to easily tell by your sex life. So not helpful
[/quote]

a lot of what you're asking about is very personal to each couple and/or is just common sense (or so I thought).

[Autumn Dusk]

[quote name='ImageTrinity' timestamp='1334147635' post='2415704']
Yeah, I don't get it. Given the divorce rates in the US, I think the lack of resources for singles discerning marriage and engaged and married couples is appalling. When my husband and I went to our engaged encounter weekend, we met couples who were a few weeks away from their wedding and hadn't discussed whether or not they were going to have children, what they thought about birth control, whether they intended to raise kids Catholic and a number of other huge, huge issues. There were individuals who had no clue what their future spouse thought about faith, values, sexuality or family life. It was incredibly sad.
[/quote]

I couldn't IMMAGINE this. How horrifying it would be. I was talking to my mom and dad and that was them, though. They liked eachother, agreed to get married and did it. They never talked about kids, money, jobs or future besides the....well...marital part.

My future hubs and I know how we want to handle money, how many kids, what kind of education, how we want to choose names for said kids, what kind of things we want to do as a couple before kids, what kind of things we want to do as parents, presenting a united front for kids, what we want to do for work, and what we want after we raised those kids.

Yet there are things we both need help on. He dosn't understand my normal girl freak outs, I don't understand his love of a rather stupid TV program, though many guys love it. I want guidance, but it just isn't out there. How do I figure out if he's mad or needs space or if he loves me and is just more secure than me. 99.9% of relationship sites...INCLUDING christian ones boil it down to one question. How's the sex?

And according to them I'm dating a gay man. Cept he's VERY much not gay, just a good Catholic. But a good Catholic MAN, and despite my brothers I am still lacking on understading manly orbit. Actually I'm grateful for my brothers telling me the things that my SIL do that drive them crazy...beucase I do it, too. And I know not to do it with my guy.

[Autumn Dusk]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1334150097' post='2415714']
a lot of what you're asking about is very personal to each couple and/or is just common sense (or so I thought).
[/quote]

Not really. My parents are Catholics, and they're good, but while they followed the rules of the Church they don't think I should worry about the rules of the church. (their words!!!) Outside of them....I know one other Catholic family (3 generations). Most of my friends have single parents, divorced parents, wierd family situations. I didn't grow up, nor do I really have now, the abilty to see things that are "common sense" when it comes to relationships. One brother has been married 2 years, the other 2.5. These marriages have lasted longer than I thought they would...and no, it's not a diss on my brothers...its the way the world works. 50% of marriages don't make it past the first year...I have 2 brothers who have...denying statistics.

Married catholics under 60 don't seem to exist.

You can only live what you know.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Autumn Dusk

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1334150097' post='2415714']
a lot of what you're asking about is very personal to each couple and/or is just common sense (or so I thought).
[/quote]

Ah, no, not at all, not in our society.

[Oremoose]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1334150097' post='2415714']
a lot of what you're asking about is very personal to each couple and/or is just common sense (or so I thought).
[/quote]

Red you are right. But at the same time I'm scratching my head. I decerened in and out of a religious order now I'm home and I don't know if I should just try Religiuos life again...try the diocean priesthood. I think I may not have a preistly vocation I just have a preistly heart. but to the point I don't know...no ones says how you know your vocation is to marragie.

[RandomProddy]

With the religious life it seems that you are discerning a call to a particular way of life and all it entails. In marriage this is somewhat true but also that you are discerning a call to marry someone else.

[Autumn Dusk]

[quote name='RandomProddy' timestamp='1334152607' post='2415730']
With the religious life it seems that you are discerning a call to a particular way of life and all it entails. In marriage this is somewhat true but also that you are discerning a call to marry someone else.
[/quote]

Yeah but you are discerning religious life. And that varies. look at the contrast between a Benedictine who lives in silence, bakes bread and never goes on the other side of the grate for the rest of his life, lives in his own small cottage, earns his keep but is very provided for. Then look at a CFR. They are in the community day in and day out and their home is grand central station. They travel all over the US. They do not know where their next meal is comming from and some nights DO go hungry for lack of food, they rely heavily on the support of community and talk about everything. And then you have the diocean priest, who doesn't take the vow of poverty but will likely never share quarters with another human again. Some have money for fancy cars or dogs, etc. Religious life is as varied as humans are. There are contemplative and missionary and everything in between. The life of a school-teacher nun may be closer to the life of a mother of older children than the life of a missionary nun in Sengal. And the mother homeschooling 8 kids may have more in common with a nun running an orphanage than she does with the business woman and her 1.8 kids down the street.

And the process of getting there, I think, is more similar than people care to admit. And I think it's one reason why we have failed marriages.

[RandomProddy]

[quote name='Autumn Dusk' timestamp='1334153232' post='2415734']
Yeah but you are discerning religious life.
[/quote]

Huh?

[MissScripture]

[quote name='ImageTrinity' timestamp='1334147635' post='2415704']
Yeah, I don't get it. Given the divorce rates in the US, I think the lack of resources for singles discerning marriage and engaged and married couples is appalling. When my husband and I went to our engaged encounter weekend, we met couples who were a few weeks away from their wedding and hadn't discussed whether or not they were going to have children, what they thought about birth control, whether they intended to raise kids Catholic and a number of other huge, huge issues. There were individuals who had no clue what their future spouse thought about faith, values, sexuality or family life. It was incredibly sad.

I say if we want to encourage vocations to the priesthood and religious life, start by giving couples the support they need to properly discern the vocation of marriage.
[/quote]
A lot of that stuff should have been covered in marriage prep, though I know that is frequently not up to par, or many people choose to ignore it, because what would a priest know.

That said, Red is right that you can't discern marriage the same way as religious life. A lot of stuff will depend on the individuals involved, though I do agree that having support for young Catholic couples is a good idea, because like Autumn pointed out, we aren't living in the typical way and can't (and shouldn't) use the same benchmarks to measure relationship health.