Anti-Catholicism

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1333882685' post='2414367']
I don't think I understand the argument. What do you mean by 'stealth attack'? I don't see how she doesn't have a fair fight. She lives in a center right country which is also the most religious in the developed world (with maybe the exception of Ireland) in which roughly 80% of the population also claims to be Christian and half the population attends Church regularly and which has very strong free speech protections. It seems like she's asking for an equality of outcome rather than equality of opportunity. I may just be totally missing her point, though.
[/quote]

I think you are. There are people who want Christians out of the public arena entirely and want religion of whatever kind to be a totally private affair. But they don't have the guts to come out and say that, so they attack while claiming to be tolerant of all. "[color=#282828][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]Their ideology is laying claims to the public sector, like conquering territory, eagerly and viciously (in the metaphorical sense), but they deny any conquest is taking place and that we should all just hold hands and get along."[/background][/color]

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Brother Adam' timestamp='1333827820' post='2414078']


It is a balance. Blood isn't running in the street yet, but the prejudices against Catholics are well documented and growing continually more serious as the Church is impeded in her mission. Ignoring those sociopolitical prejudices can be just as bad.
[/quote]I call BS. I've lived in the south for forty years as a Catholic. Prejudice is Much less now. As a teen, I was denied jobs because I was Catholic. It was a Huge deal when our catholic pastor con celebrated a prayer service with the baptist pastor. My kids didn't hear the same type of comments from neighborhood kids because they went to the catholic grade school. American society is tremendously less anti-catholic now.

[r2Dtoo]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1333897411' post='2414405']
I think you are. There are people who want Christians out of the public arena entirely and want religion of whatever kind to be a totally private affair. But they don't have the guts to come out and say that, so they attack while claiming to be tolerant of all. "[color=#282828][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]Their ideology is laying claims to the public sector, like conquering territory, eagerly and viciously (in the metaphorical sense), but they deny any conquest is taking place and that we should all just hold hands and get along."[/background][/color]
[/quote]
What does that mean to you exactly? Are you talking about saying "Happy Holidays" vs "Merry Christmas"? Removing a nativity scene from public property because someone complained? Viewing a presidential candidate as incapable to win because he talks about God and his faith too much? Be more descriptive please.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='r2Dtoo' timestamp='1333898289' post='2414413']
What does that mean to you exactly? Are you talking about saying "Happy Holidays" vs "Merry Christmas"? Removing a nativity scene from public property because someone complained? Viewing a presidential candidate as incapable to win because he talks about God and his faith too much? Be more descriptive please.
[/quote]

Ask Icy whom I am quoting. I was just trying to clarify poster's point, because I think you were missing the gist of it.

[r2Dtoo]

So you "clarified" it without being any more descriptive about it.

[cmotherofpirl]

Dude its Easter and I'm cooking a meal

[r2Dtoo]

Ah, makes sense. Whatcha cooking?

[Guest]

Lol

[Annie12]

[quote name='Sister Marie' timestamp='1333810541' post='2413959']
I certainly do not believe that we cannot judge actions as being sinful...
[/quote]

I feel like I am bringing up ancient history here but I was just thinking about this and remembered the spiritual works of mercy. One of them is to Admonish sinners. Here I have this link:
[url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10198d.htm"]http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10198d.htm[/url]

I was just thinking about how you said we can not judge actions as being sinful and just thought I should post this for future reference.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Annie12' timestamp='1333922558' post='2414478']
I feel like I am bringing up ancient history here but I was just thinking about this and remembered the spiritual works of mercy. One of them is to Admonish sinners. Here I have this link:
[url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10198d.htm"]http://www.newadvent...then/10198d.htm[/url]

I was just thinking about how you said we can not judge actions as being sinful and just thought I should post this for future reference.
[/quote]Annie12,
I apoligize to you for my unkind behavior towards you. I'm familiar with with the Admonish the sinner bit. I'm also familiar with loving your neighbor as yourself. Check out this recent phatmass topic [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/120312-im-christian-unless-you-are-gay/"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/120312-im-christian-unless-you-are-gay/[/url] I got a lot out of it. Maybe we should be talking more about anti-kindness, instead of anti-Catholic, and anti-Muslim, and anti-anyone, which I think was a big part of your original posts.

[Sister Marie]

[quote name='Annie12' timestamp='1333922558' post='2414478']
I feel like I am bringing up ancient history here but I was just thinking about this and remembered the spiritual works of mercy. One of them is to Admonish sinners. Here I have this link:
[url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10198d.htm"]http://www.newadvent...then/10198d.htm[/url]

I was just thinking about how you said we can not judge actions as being sinful and just thought I should post this for future reference.
[/quote]

Annie, first, I think that was already brought up and clarified... maybe you didn't read that part of the thread? I was speaking about your vehement accusation of sin of people who don't agree with you or who may have a different understanding than they should - I WAS NOT speaking about actions such as rape, murder, or theft. You went from someone saying something mean about catholics to them being sinful liars. There is a BIG difference between murdering a child and disagreeing with you or even disagreeing with the Church and having some kind of misunderstanding. Telling them they are sinners doesn't do anything but irritate people. Explaining, being kind, helping all fall under the category of admonishing the sinner without being rude and self-righteous while still showing people a way to grow.

For some reason my comment has been taken completely out of the context in which it was given and is now being applied, even after my clarification, to a completely different topic!

If you don't remember what I was referring to when I made the original statement, here it is:


[quote name='Annie12' timestamp='1333805902' post='2413941']
I completely agree with most of what you are saying, [b]but anti-catholic comments aimed to hurt people, means that people are sinning. When someone says something knowingly and blatantly false about the church, then they are lying. I don't think we should encourage that because we would only be encouraging people to sin. [/b]I do think however that God permits anti-Catholicism as a way of helping the faithful grow stronger in their faith. However, I don't think God would encourage such behavior.
[/quote]

My point was that, how do you know that those comments are meant to hurt? How do you know that they know their comments are blatantly false? How do you know for sure that these people are purposely lying? The answer is that you don't. God alone does. Most of them are misguided and ignorant. This is what I meant when I said you couldn't go around judging people so harshly for things that you cannot possibly know for sure. I am aware that I did not express this well in my original post but that is why I clarified it later. If you choose to take this attitude, be prepared to have a lot more people turned off to the Church. You won't be gaining any converts, or people sympathetic to us, with this attitude.

[Annie12]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1333923253' post='2414481']
Annie12,
I apoligize to you for my unkind behavior towards you. I'm familiar with with the Admonish the sinner bit. I'm also familiar with loving your neighbor as yourself. Check out this recent phatmass topic [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/120312-im-christian-unless-you-are-gay/"]http://www.phatmass....ss-you-are-gay/[/url] I got a lot out of it. Maybe we should be talking more about anti-kindness, instead of anti-Catholic, and anti-Muslim, and anti-anyone, which I think was a big part of your original posts.
[/quote]
Thanks, I thought that was a really good article! I feel really bad for that guy's friend now. I want to be his friend. And, I agree I think it is way too easy for people to let hurtful things slip out of their mouth and not even realize they were hurtful. Personally, I would have no problem being friends with that guy. I wish kindness was a standard [i]everyone [/i]strived for. And you are right. I think I was talking about the whole kindness factor when I posted this thread. Thanks for the article!

[Annie12]

[quote name='Sister Marie' timestamp='1333923974' post='2414484']
Annie, first, I think that was already brought up and clarified... maybe you didn't read that part of the thread? I was speaking about your vehement accusation of sin of people who don't agree with you or who may have a different understanding than they should - I WAS NOT speaking about actions such as rape, murder, or theft. You went from someone saying something mean about catholics to them being sinful liars. There is a BIG difference between murdering a child and disagreeing with you or even disagreeing with the Church and having some kind of misunderstanding. Telling them they are sinners doesn't do anything but irritate people. Explaining, being kind, helping all fall under the category of admonishing the sinner without being rude and self-righteous while still showing people a way to grow.

For some reason my comment has been taken completely out of the context in which it was given and is now being applied, even after my clarification, to a completely different topic!

If you don't remember what I was referring to when I made the original statement, here it is:




My point was that, how do you know that those comments are meant to hurt? How do you know that they know their comments are blatantly false? How do you know for sure that these people are purposely lying? The answer is that you don't. God alone does. Most of them are misguided and ignorant. This is what I meant when I said you couldn't go around judging people so harshly for things that you cannot possibly know for sure. I am aware that I did not express this well in my original post but that is why I clarified it later. If you choose to take this attitude, be prepared to have a lot more people turned off to the Church. You won't be gaining any converts, or people sympathetic to us, with this attitude.
[/quote]
I didn't mean to make you upset by this post and I was also not referring to the context of my previous posts. I meant it generally. I think there was a mutual misunderstanding. Maybe I am just completely drawing a blank but I really don't remember calling anyone on Phatmass liars or sinful. The post you cited above came off wrong and I would have to explain myself for another page. So, just know that I didn't mean what is came off as. I feel like you are mad at me now so I will leave it at this. But I didn't want to hurt you or anyone by any of my posts. I could try to defend myself but that would just create an argument again. Just know That I sincerely didn't want to hurt anyone by my posts. I actually was praying last night and asked God to help work out this thread and he did. The arguing had stopped. I wish you all the best and I hope there are no hurt feelings.

[Sister Marie]

[quote name='Annie12' timestamp='1333926028' post='2414491']
I didn't mean to make you upset by this post and I was also not referring to the context of my previous posts. I meant it generally. I think there was a mutual misunderstanding. Maybe I am just completely drawing a blank but I really don't remember calling anyone on Phatmass liars or sinful. The post you cited above came off wrong and I would have to explain myself for another page. So, just know that I didn't mean what is came off as. I feel like you are mad at me now so I will leave it at this. But I didn't want to hurt you or anyone by any of my posts. I could try to defend myself but that would just create an argument again. Just know That I sincerely didn't want to hurt anyone by my posts. I actually was praying last night and asked God to help work out this thread and he did. The arguing had stopped. I wish you all the best and I hope there are no hurt feelings.
[/quote]

I'm upset that my words have been taken out of context but I am not mad at you. If you write something in this thread then it is going to be taken in the context of your words and mine. I get the feeling from what you write here that you want to be able to say what you want to say but don't want anyone to disagree with you or challenge you. It isn't fair to take my words out of context and then try to turn it back on me when I defend myself, as if defending myself is starting another argument. I didn't start another argument.

This did hurt my feelings, but I think you didn't mean to and so, following what I said earlier about not judging, I don't think badly of you and I don't think you sinned just because you happened to hurt my feelings by criticizing something that I said relating to religion. Sometimes our feelings get hurt and it isn't because anyone is a bad person... it's just because we are humans.

Please be careful though in the future of posting things when quoting others that you read the whole context and the whole thread so that you don't misrepresent someone again.

[Annie12]

[quote name='Sister Marie' timestamp='1333927020' post='2414501']
I'm upset that my words have been taken out of context but I am not mad at you. If you write something in this thread then it is going to be taken in the context of your words and mine. [color=#ff0000] I get the feeling from what you write here that you want to be able to say what you want to say but don't want anyone to disagree with you or challenge you.[/color] It isn't fair to take my words out of context and then try to turn it back on me when I defend myself, as if defending myself is starting another argument. I didn't start another argument.

This did hurt my feelings, but I think you didn't mean to and so, following what I said earlier about not judging, I don't think badly of you and I don't think you sinned just because you happened to hurt my feelings by criticizing something that I said relating to religion. Sometimes our feelings get hurt and it isn't because anyone is a bad person... it's just because we are humans.

Please be careful though in the future of posting things when quoting others that you read the whole context and the whole thread so that you don't misrepresent someone again.
[/quote]
This sounded a lot like one of my earlier posts when my words were being taken the wrong way. Just sayin' . I actually was trying to be helpful by my post. So, I feel bad that you took it the wrong way . And, I disagree with the highlighted comment above. That would be a false accusation and shows your frustration. I already apologized,so, I don't see why you are still sticking it to me. I really really really didn't want to hurt anyone but I am still being scolded.

I didn't mean that post about the spiritual work of mercy in the context of this thread. Your post just seemed to be saying that you can't judge anyone's sinfulness. I think you meant that you can't read anyone's conscience only God can. But all in all, your post was responding to self made accusation that I was "vehemently" accusing some of the Phatmass users of being "sinful" "lairs". That was an unfair judgement. It just wasn't true.

What I was saying was that you can't encourage anti-Catholicism so that as Catholics we can be purified. Doing that might bring people into the near occasion of sin which is just wrong and I suspect you would agree. I think I was just going on a tangent with that post anyway. I don't really know where I was going with it. It was not meant in any sense to insult any Phatmass user or in reference to any Phatmass user.

Just so you realize, this is just the internet and I don't think God wants you to be upset over a bunch of pixels. If you notice I am not upset ever since yesterday because I realized that fact. Be Happy!!!

I said I was sorry. You can do what you want with that apology. So, far you have ignored it and continued sticking it to me. I hope you will accept my apology even though we don't see eye to eye. I didn't and don't want to hurt you. Friends?
BTW, Happy Easter!