i<3LSOP Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 [quote name='Groo the Wanderer' timestamp='1332927809' post='2409580'] too expensive. grow your own [/quote] Totally that is what you want to shoot for... it is healthiest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r2Dtoo Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Interesting amount of opinions here. I think I'll chime in as well. First I am suspicious of the idea that "organic" food is healthier than "non-organic", and not just for the reasons Lisa mentioned. What I find most concerning is all these changes people keep insist we make in growing and raising our food. Some people, myself included, have experienced bad side effects from sudden changes in our diets, and I would be concerned of being forced suddenly have to eat food grown or raised in a different way. Yes, I am well aware that the government mandates this more so than "organic" food activists and I don't like it, but organic is just another change that I don't want to do. Also, some of these claims made by these activists are in my view, false. For example, their claim that the antibiotics farmers put in meat is increasing antibiotic resistance and causing the development of super-bugs is rather silly. Plenty of people, more than you may think, are allergic to antibiotics. If the amount of antibiotics farmers were adding to food were enough to cause resistance than we should be seeing more allergic reactions to meat than what we do. This also makes me suspicious when they start talking about growth hormones, and GMOs(the latter of which I'm the least worried about). Finally, I'm sick of hearing advertisers claim that organic foods are some magic ticket out of the obesity epidemic. I am 5 ft 7 in and 120 lbs, and have never even touched organic foods. I don't need to be told I need to change my diet because I'm fat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmilyAnn Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 [quote name='r2Dtoo' timestamp='1333054398' post='2410356'] Also, some of these claims made by these activists are in my view, false. For example, their claim that the antibiotics farmers put in meat is increasing antibiotic resistance and causing the development of super-bugs is rather silly. Plenty of people, more than you may think, are allergic to antibiotics. If the amount of antibiotics farmers were adding to food were enough to cause resistance than we should be seeing more allergic reactions to meat than what we do. This also makes me suspicious when they start talking about growth hormones, and GMOs(the latter of which I'm the least worried about). [/quote] Actually it is true that increased use of antibiotics is what leads to increasing antibiotic resistance in bacteria and creates these so-called super-bugs. An antibiotic is not a specific drug, it is a classification of drugs. There is a huge spectrum of antibiotics with different structures, different compositions and different action mechanisms. People who have allergies are not allergic to antibiotics, they are allergic to a specific kind or class of antibiotic. Also, the antibiotics would have been broken down in the animal's system so your rationale that meat would cause allergic reactions is simply false. Antibiotics have their uses, but when they were first developed they were heralded in popular use as a cure-all, obviously untrue since they only work on bacteria not viruses. But people were so convinced antibiotics were the answer to everything they would insist on antibiotics from doctors even if their illness didn't need them. A lot of doctors did bow down to such pressure from patients, because otherwise they'd just go to another doctor who would give it to them and they would loose business. Research into antibiotics also came to a standstill because we didn't realise how resistance would develop and by the time we did it was very late in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizabeth09 Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 [quote name='J-Roq' timestamp='1333048503' post='2410307'] If you think organic food doesn't taste better than non-organic food, I give you this challenge: eat a non-organic carrot from the supermarket... then eat an organic one. I'll go ahead and give you the win on some other foods, but seriously, there are some organic foods that taste [i]way[/i] better than non-organics. Potatoes are another one I'm a fan of, although the difference is probably far more subjective than how I feel about (what I call) "cardboard carrots" versus organic carrots. [/quote] Also try grass feed meat for two weeks, then try the other meat. You will taste a different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 [quote name='r2Dtoo' timestamp='1333054398' post='2410356'] Interesting amount of opinions here. I think I'll chime in as well. First I am suspicious of the idea that "organic" food is healthier than "non-organic", and not just for the reasons Lisa mentioned. What I find most concerning is all these changes people keep insist we make in growing and raising our food. Some people, myself included, have experienced bad side effects from sudden changes in our diets, and I would be concerned of being forced suddenly have to eat food grown or raised in a different way. Yes, I am well aware that the government mandates this more so than "organic" food activists and I don't like it, but organic is just another change that I don't want to do. Also, some of these claims made by these activists are in my view, false. For example, their claim that the antibiotics farmers put in meat is increasing antibiotic resistance and causing the development of super-bugs is rather silly. Plenty of people, more than you may think, are allergic to antibiotics. If the amount of antibiotics farmers were adding to food were enough to cause resistance than we should be seeing more allergic reactions to meat than what we do. This also makes me suspicious when they start talking about growth hormones, and GMOs(the latter of which I'm the least worried about). Finally, I'm sick of hearing advertisers claim that organic foods are some magic ticket out of the obesity epidemic. I am 5 ft 7 in and 120 lbs, and have never even touched organic foods. I don't need to be told I need to change my diet because I'm fat. [/quote] Organic food is[color=#000000][font=Verdana, Tahoma, sans-serif][size=3] "food grown and processed using no synthetic fertilizers or pesticides" and is definitely healthier than crops covered in pesticides. [/size][/font][/color][color=#000000][font=Verdana, Tahoma, sans-serif][size=3] [/size][/font][/color][url="http://www.naturalhealthcure.org/food/pesticides-in-foods-dangers-effects-on-health.html"]http://www.naturalhealthcure.org/food/pesticides-in-foods-dangers-effects-on-health.html[/url] [color=#000000][font=Verdana, Tahoma, sans-serif][size=3]Antibiotics and growth hormones do enter the water supply and us from stuff given to domestic animals, in the same way that the estrogen/progesterone pollutes our water and alters aquatic life. [/size][/font][/color][url="http://www.foodproductiondaily.com/Quality-Safety/New-reports-reveal-increased-resistance-to-antibiotics-in-the-food-chain"]http://www.foodproductiondaily.com/Quality-Safety/New-reports-reveal-increased-resistance-to-antibiotics-in-the-food-chain[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r2Dtoo Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 [quote name='EmilyAnn' timestamp='1333059691' post='2410398']An antibiotic is not a specific drug, it is a classification of drugs. There is a huge spectrum of antibiotics with different structures, different compositions and different action mechanisms. People who have allergies are not allergic to antibiotics, they are allergic to a specific kind or class of antibiotic.[/quote] Ok, I'm in nursing school. I've studied antibiotics, and you have a very simplistic view of them. First of all I have never heard of someone only being allergic to one antibiotic, they are allergic to entire classes, and there are less classes than you think. Also people are often allergic to more than one class of antibiotic (like penicillins and cephalosporins ). [quote]Also, the antibiotics would have been broken down in the animal's system so your rationale that meat would cause allergic reactions is simply false.[/quote] Why would that matter? There is no possible way they could increase antibiotic resistance without also causing an allergic reaction. It's not possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil'Monster Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I have "Organic" chickens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 [url="http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/05/31/study-found-toxin-from-gm-crops-is-showing-up-in-human-blood.aspx"]http://articles.merc...uman-blood.aspx[/url] [url="http://www.medicineatmichigan.org/magazine/2004/fall/huron/huron01.asp"]http://www.medicineatmichigan.org/magazine/2004/fall/huron/huron01.asp[/url] [url="http://www.news-medical.net/news/2004/05/27/1969.aspx"]http://www.news-medical.net/news/2004/05/27/1969.aspx[/url] [url="http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/06/110614114702.htm"]http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/06/110614114702.htm[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 [url="http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/10/111020164020.htm"]http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/10/111020164020.htm[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filius_angelorum Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I do try to support local farmers and farmers who use more humane farming techniques, whether organic or not, not because of the food value of those products, but because I want to support a subsidiary economy and economic freedom. As for productivity per acre and environmental impact, what is really needed is a serious scaling-back of the livestock industry. It is the single best thing we could do for world hunger and the environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisa Marie Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 The "organic" movement is SUPER DUPER popular back home (Washington state) by me. My siblings also spent high school and middle school raising a steer every year for 4H. The meat from those cows always tasted noticeably better than supermarket meat, and was cheaper in the long run. Sure, those cows got a few shots of antibiotics, but that was only because another cow in the barn got sick (and not a bunch of different broad spectrum stuffs). My family usually tries to go to the county fair's 4H auction and buy either a whole steer or a side (half) and a pig, all "on the hoof" so we can tell the butcher exactly how we want the meat cut (how thick the steaks, ground beef or patties, etc). That way you not only know that the animals were treated humanely and exactly what drugs went in them, but you're also helping to support a local youth's project. The term "organic" isn't regulated by the FDA, so anyone could use it, not matter what. Which is why it's also good to look for other factors...like reading the ingredients list, looking to see if it's also non-GMO, etc. GMO foods won't kill you (most of the time! haha) but like Roq said, it's not good, either. I second everything he says about "organic" foods making you feel better, though. We also raise chickens, and those eggs are the tastiest eggs I have EVER had, anywhere. Rich, orange-golden yolks. Plus, free fertilizer for the veggie and tomato gardens! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missionseeker Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 [quote name='EmilyAnn' timestamp='1332929276' post='2409582'] It's way too expensive. I never buy anything organic because it's like twice the price and I can't afford it. But when it comes to the whole 'genetic modification' thing I think people fail to realise that even their beloved organic food has been subject to that. We've been using genetic selection to limit gene pools and modify food organisms for a very long time, it's not exactly a new idea. [/quote] I agree that it is super expensive. But I try to buy organic more often than not, especially in vegetables and fruit. I'd LOVE to buy organic meat, but I really can't afford that. [quote name='r2Dtoo' timestamp='1333054398' post='2410356'] Interesting amount of opinions here. I think I'll chime in as well. First I am suspicious of the idea that "organic" food is healthier than "non-organic", and not just for the reasons Lisa mentioned. What I find most concerning is all these changes people keep insist we make in growing and raising our food. Some people, myself included, have experienced bad side effects from sudden changes in our diets, and I would be concerned of being forced suddenly have to eat food grown or raised in a different way. Yes, I am well aware that the government mandates this more so than "organic" food activists and I don't like it, but organic is just another change that I don't want to do. Also, some of these claims made by these activists are in my view, false. For example, their claim that the antibiotics farmers put in meat is increasing antibiotic resistance and causing the development of super-bugs is rather silly. Plenty of people, more than you may think, are allergic to antibiotics. If the amount of antibiotics farmers were adding to food were enough to cause resistance than we should be seeing more allergic reactions to meat than what we do. This also makes me suspicious when they start talking about growth hormones, and GMOs(the latter of which I'm the least worried about). Finally, I'm sick of hearing advertisers claim that organic foods are some magic ticket out of the obesity epidemic. I am 5 ft 7 in and 120 lbs, and have never even touched organic foods. I don't need to be told I need to change my diet because I'm fat. [/quote] Poison is Poison. Pesticides are poison. And, after a couple of generations of bugs, they begin to develop immunity to poison, thus making it necessary to up the levels of poison. And some bugs that are resistant to these pesticides are the ones that carry crazy awful diseases. When they become resistant to the pesticides, the diseases start to become more widespread. From a study at Clemson: [quote] Today, pests that were once major threats to human health and agriculture but that were brought under control by pesticides are on the rebound. Mosquitoes that are capable of transmitting malaria are now resistant to virtually all pesticides used against them. This problem is compounded because the organisms that cause malaria have also become resistant to drugs used to treat the disease in humans. Many populations of the corn earworm, which attacks many agricultural crops worldwide including corn, cotton, tomatoes, tobacco, and peanuts, are resistant to multiple pesticides. Because many generations of some pests can develop in a single year, it is easy to see how resistance can develop so quickly in so many pest species. Recent studies indicate there are now over 500 species of insects and mites resistant to pesticides. Over 270 weed species, over 150 plant pathogens, and about a half dozen species of rats are resistant to pesticides that once controlled them. Multiple resistance—resistance to more than one pesticide and to pesticides in more than one chemical class—is increasing rapidly. There are over 1,000 insect/insecticide resistance combinations, and at least 17 species of insects that are resistant to all major classes of insecticides. Pesticides should not be considered the sole or even the primary solution to a pest problem. However, pesticides are frequently an integral part of a pest management program. Pesticide resistance dramatically lessens our ability to bring pest numbers below damaging levels in such a program[/quote] ( [url="http://ipm.ncsu.edu/safety/factsheets/resistan.pdf"]http://ipm.ncsu.edu/safety/factsheets/resistan.pdf[/url] ) besides that, if it's poisonous to bugs, it's also poisonous to humans. the larger the amounts we have to use for the bugs, the more we ingest. [quote name='r2Dtoo' timestamp='1333073217' post='2410474'] Ok, I'm in nursing school. I've studied antibiotics, and you have a very simplistic view of them. First of all I have never heard of someone only being allergic to one antibiotic, they are allergic to entire classes, and there are less classes than you think. Also people are often allergic to more than one class of antibiotic (like penicillins and cephalosporins ). Why would that matter? There is no possible way they could increase antibiotic resistance without also causing an allergic reaction. It's not possible. [/quote] I am allergic to one antibiotic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Organic_Program"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Organic_Program[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisa Marie Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1333123129' post='2410674'] [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Organic_Program"]http://en.wikipedia....Organic_Program[/url] [/quote] Aha! So it's organic if it's got the USDA seal on it, and not just the word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizabeth09 Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 (edited) Just because its says organic on it, do not always mean its organic. Always look at the ingredient, because if you can not pronounce words, then do not buy it. This is because food can have different names to them. Edited March 31, 2012 by elizabeth09 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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