Organic Food

[mysisterisalittlesister]

Thought this would make an interesting Debate Table topic. What's your opinion?

Fire away!

[cmotherofpirl]

Define organic.

[Lisa]

1. It's a marketing scam. It's also not a standardized term worldwide, so if you buy something like organic pineapple, you're probably not getting what you think you're getting.

2. The productivity per acre is terrible, so unless [b]everyone[/b] went back to the "raise your own food" idea of a large garden and chickens instead of a back yard, it's unlikely to be a sustainable solution.

2. Since I'm researching vegetable safety: due to the *ahem* fertilizers used on organic vegetables, and that they are often grown on smaller farms that have less rigorous washing procedures, organics and other food sold at farmers' markets may actually contain higher concentrations of E.coli, Listeria, and salmonella. Seriously, if you buy produce from the farmers' market, wash it really, really well.

Edited to add:

PS: I really do like the environment. I appreciate buying from local farmers and as a beekeeper, I probably understand the danger of pesticides more than most. But certifying something as organic is not the option.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Lisa

[elizabeth09]

[size=4][font=times new roman,times,serif]Few years ago, my family and I found out the truth what is in our food. Organic is the right way to go.[color="#333333"] Its the right way to go. Its baby steps still for us.[/color][/font][/size]

[J-Roq]

I used to feel the same way as Lisa there. In the past year or so, I've had my mind changed. I could say a lot about organic foods and GMO and pesticides and all that, but I would rather take my time and sniff out sources before making any of those points. The one thing I will say is this: I think eating more (not exclusively) organic foods and adding supplementation to my diet lead to becoming a far healthier, happier person. I have lost 30 lbs in a year by [i]changing[/i] my diet and not [i]going on[/i] a diet.

As an important note I will say that I always ate homemade food and never fast food. I am not a frozen dinner sort of person, and I never was. Even so, I was always overweight. I was always tired. I had stomach problems all the time. My mind was cloudy, and I felt like I was becoming dumber every year instead of smarter in spite of the fact that I was attending college and being challenged. Then I replaced a lot of the non-organic foods in my home-cooked diet to organic versions of the same foods. Since I made this switch a year ago, I've steadily lost about 30 lbs. I am motivated, happy, and clear minded. I feel smarter than I did a year ago.

Are all of these things due to organic foods? No, there have been some other changes I've made, including praying more. However, I strongly feel that there is a correlation. What you fuel your body with is an important contributor to how you will feel in general. The amount of pesticides in most supermarket foods--and the amount of them that are genetically modified to withstand EVEN MORE pesticide usage--is disturbing. These things are poison. Yes, literally poison. I find that many people seem to forget that pesticides are not something you want to put into your body, despite the... well, obvious nature of that fact.

Sure, organic foods [i]may[/i] have more bacteria (if you don't clean or cook them properly), and that [i]may[/i] make you sick. Surprise! Those bacterias often exist on non-organic foods too, despite the frequency being smaller. So you [i]may[/i] get sick from non-organic food as well. The difference I care more about is the fact that organic foods are not [i]deliberately and consistently[/i] covered in/pumped full of pesticides.

For the record, I have fruit trees in my yard as well as an accidental garden that sprouts out of my compost by itself. The vegetation in my yard alone provides us with a massive amount of snacks, side dishes, jams, juices, and desserts--for free. I pick bean pods right off the plant and munch them; I pull fruits off the trees and take bites; I haven't gotten food poisoning once.

I understand that for some, it might be genuine cause for concern to potentially get a mouthful of bacteria, but any remotely healthy person who treats their body well will have a strong enough immune system to deal with it anyway. I'm not saying that people should only eat organic, nor that organic is better (because I can't even be sure of that). I am saying that there is no reason to be knockin' it around like it is evil.


I would recommend that anyone who can should at least supplement their diet with home-grown or organic foods. If you see no difference in a month or two--sure, stop. However, if your health changes the way mine did, you might end up feeling the same way I do.

[Archaeology cat]

The only problem I have is that the definition isn't standardised, so you have to be careful in that respect. I do think it's best going with less processed, fresher food. The shelf life of most foods in the US scares me, to be honest, but that's not quite on topic. I'd love to grow more of my own (I only have herbs right now), but that isn't that feasible where I am. Well, I can do more potted things, I just haven't yet.

[eagle_eye222001]

I wouldn't blindly buy what is claimed to be organic. But it would be a lie to say the whole organic food movement is a scam.

Having big government standardize it isn't the solution. Educating yourself and others on it is.

My experience with organic food has been very positive and I'm already a healthy person to begin with. It's amazing how bad the food in this nation has gotten and how everyone ignores it. We just pop pills to solve our health issues when instead many modern health problems could be solved by eating healthier food.

Edited March 28, 2012 by eagle_eye222001

[Groo the Wanderer]

too expensive. grow your own

[EmilyAnn]

It's way too expensive. I never buy anything organic because it's like twice the price and I can't afford it.

But when it comes to the whole 'genetic modification' thing I think people fail to realise that even their beloved organic food has been subject to that. We've been using genetic selection to limit gene pools and modify food organisms for a very long time, it's not exactly a new idea.

[J-Roq]

[quote name='EmilyAnn' timestamp='1332929276' post='2409582']
It's way too expensive. I never buy anything organic because it's like twice the price and I can't afford it.

But when it comes to the whole 'genetic modification' thing I think people fail to realise that even their beloved organic food has been subject to that. We've been using genetic selection to limit gene pools and modify food organisms for a very long time, it's not exactly a new idea.
[/quote]
It's true that hybridization and genetic selection have been used for a long time (the Ancient Romans did it, and probably every agrarian society did, whether or not they realized what they were doing). This also means that that many crops came to have less nutritional value because they were bred for taste, size, or appearance rather than nutrition.

Just to be clear, however, when I mention GMO foods, I'm talking about things that have been genetically modified in a laboratory to possess an attribute or function wildly different from what nature has provided. It seems as though the bulk of these modifications have been for financial reasons--to make it cheaper to produce more food, essentially. Many crops have been modified in recent decades to be able to withstand far more pesticides than the average plant without dying, so there are less crops lost to bugs and to poisons known as pesticides. Others have literally been modified to [i]produce pesticides in them as they grow[/i].

The effects of such modification on people? Still being observed.

In the meantime, I found this summary of 19 studies of the effects of these GMO crops on mammals. To me, it suggests that we may want to avoid as many GMO foods as we can: [url="http://www.enveurope.com/content/23/1/10"]http://www.enveurope...content/23/1/10[/url]

Edited March 28, 2012 by J-Roq

[Archaeology cat]

Exactly, Eagle_Eye

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='J-Roq' timestamp='1332933517' post='2409592']
It's true that hybridization and genetic selection have been used for a long time (the Ancient Romans did it, and probably every agrarian society did, whether or not they realized what they were doing). This also means that that many crops came to have less nutritional value because they were bred for taste, size, or appearance rather than nutrition.

Just to be clear, however, when I mention GMO foods, I'm talking about things that have been genetically modified in a laboratory to possess an attribute or function wildly different from what nature has provided. It seems as though the bulk of these modifications have been for financial reasons--to make it cheaper to produce more food, essentially. Many crops have been modified in recent decades to be able to withstand far more pesticides than the average plant without dying, so there are less crops lost to bugs and to poisons known as pesticides. Others have literally been modified to [i]produce pesticides in them as they grow[/i].

The effects of such modification on people? Still being observed.

In the meantime, I found this summary of 19 studies of the effects of these GMO crops on mammals. To me, it suggests that we may want to avoid as many GMO foods as we can: [url="http://www.enveurope.com/content/23/1/10"]http://www.enveurope...content/23/1/10[/url]
[/quote]
GMO foods force the farmer to be dependent on the company because you are not allowed to save seed, you have to purchase it every year. So if they don't sell to you or make the price of seed outrageously, you are screwed.

[elizabeth09]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' timestamp='1332927809' post='2409580']
too expensive. grow your own
[/quote]

I have to agree with, but you will be surprise on how much you eat. It might be half of what you eat today.

[quote name='EmilyAnn' timestamp='1332929276' post='2409582']
It's way too expensive. I never buy anything organic because it's like twice the price and I can't afford it.

But when it comes to the whole 'genetic modification' thing I think people fail to realise that even their beloved organic food has been subject to that. We've been using genetic selection to limit gene pools and modify food organisms for a very long time, it's not exactly a new idea.
[/quote]

If people have been eating the way we are finding out, then it might be better for us.

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1332950809' post='2409675']
GMO foods force the farmer to be dependent on the company because you are not allowed to save seed, you have to purchase it every year. So if they don't sell to you or make the price of seed outrageously, you are screwed.
[/quote]

Not unless they hide some seeds.

Just remember that we are ding younger every year

[blacksheep]

Although I don't agree with alot of stuff brought up by Penn Gillet. Penn and Teller did a good episode of BS on organic food. Showed alot of the issues brought up here. Showed also how "organic" tend to harm the environment than help it. So I really believe its a marketing ploy and also a mind trick. You think it tastes better, you say it tastes better so you have fooled yourself that it is better. You want to be healthy...just eat veggies and stay away from so much fried and fast food. Self control people...commen sense. A superpower we have lost as a nation.

[J-Roq]

If you think organic food doesn't taste better than non-organic food, I give you this challenge: eat a non-organic carrot from the supermarket... then eat an organic one.

I'll go ahead and give you the win on some other foods, but seriously, there are some organic foods that taste [i]way[/i] better than non-organics. Potatoes are another one I'm a fan of, although the difference is probably far more subjective than how I feel about (what I call) "cardboard carrots" versus organic carrots.