Are Catholic Women Today Too Strong For The Men?

[Archaeology cat]

As for feeling you need to have things together first, there's never a perfect time. Now, I don't mean rush headlong into things, but realize that it's in God's hands. My husband tends to be of the opinion that we need to have things together before whatever plan, while I prefer to just do it (patience isn't my strong suit). In the end, though, after we butt heads on it a bit, it usually ends up that it doesn't matter because God had other plans anyway. Lol

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='Luigi' timestamp='1332736297' post='2408584']
Women are the new men, and men are the new women.

Women have better jobs, earn more, know their own minds, call the shots. Men have worse jobs, earn less. don't known their own minds, and don't call the shots any more.

It'may be sad, but it's true - based on what I've seen in my own experience.




The shoe is now on the other foot. Let's see how it fits.
[/quote]
From what I've read, that's still not true. Reports still show that men make more than women.

[quote name='BG45' timestamp='1332762631' post='2408640']
I don't think that it's as much that we're "intimidated" by strong Catholic women as thinking they are already taken or are "too good" for us.
[/quote]
The first doubt is solved by one simple question, the other by an adjustment in perspective. When we are right sized, we know exactly who we are and for whom we can do much to promote their chances of becoming a saint.

[Basilisa Marie]

*cue angry feminist keyboardsmashing*

[quote name='Luigi' timestamp='1332736297' post='2408584']
Women are the new men, and men are the new women.

Women have better jobs, earn more, know their own minds, call the shots. Men have worse jobs, earn less. don't known their own minds, and don't call the shots any more.

It'may be sad, but it's true - based on what I've seen in my own experience.




The shoe is now on the other foot. Let's see how it fits.
[/quote]

This is simply NOT true. At all. At least in America. Adjusting for education and other factors, women still make about 70% of what men do at the same job. Yes, this is partly because most women don't have the guts to ask for raises. But not entirely. White males make up something like 90% of all top-level jobs.

Can we, as a society, PLEASE stop blaming "strong women" as the reason why men won't step up and embrace a life of virtue and a vocation as a manly husband? Obviously I'm not talking about most people on Phatmass - most of us have things figured out. I just hear this quite often in orthodox Catholic circles.

In my experience, it seems to be that there are more "devout" Catholic women because many "devout" Catholic men are discerning a vocation to the priesthood. Most strong Catholic guys I know were bombarded with "oh my goodness (don't blasphemy) YOU LIKE JESUS STUFF YOU SHOULD BE A PRIEST!" while growing up.

I agree with what others have said about "having it together" before marriage, but also not waiting to have EVERYTHING together. God's going to draw you to who He's going to draw you to.

[Norseman82]

The real question is whether the "strong" women who "have it all together" are even interested in geting married due to buying in to the whole "independent", "you don't need a man" philosophy that has poisoned our culture since the 1970s.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Maggie' timestamp='1332728475' post='2408495']
Most of the devout guys (IOW the ones who don''t want to push you to sleep with them) seem to wind up in the seminary. Which I don't resent, obviously we need priests. But we women need good men to marry too!
[/quote]

You know, I had a similar conversation with the last lady I dated when she dumped me to go into a religious community and told me that "that's the risk you take when you date a religious girl" and that if I wanted to get married, I should try to find a "bad girl" (HER words, NOT MINE, before anyone jumps all over me). And just yesterday, a guy on the 'L' that struck up a conversation with me even said that I should look for a less devout Catholic girl. Very depressing thought.

So yes, men are saying similar about the women. I know some may point to the saying "there are a lot of fish in the sea", but if I take that analogy one step further, most of the fish are not "edible" and may actually poison us, considering that the dating pool has been poisoned.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Norseman82

[MissyP89]

[quote name='arfink' timestamp='1332791880' post='2408842']
Sounds like I might need to roll the dice soon...
[/quote]

Maybe. Worst thing that's going to happen is she'll say no. And that's OK -- if she says no, you're not supposed to be with her anyway. I've always believed if it's truly your vocation to marry, God will put you on the path of the right person.

[Basilisa Marie]

[quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1332801945' post='2408894']
The real question is whether the "strong" women who "have it all together" are even interested in geting married due to buying in to the whole "independent", "you don't need a man" philosophy that has poisoned our culture since the 1970s.
[/quote]

But...the only man a woman really needs is Christ. No one should find all their personal fulfillment in one purely-human person. Our goal in marriage should be helping our spouse get to heaven (and raising godly children), not finding a suitable man with a suitable job to take care of us and future children.

[quote][color=#282828]You know, I had a similar conversation with the last lady I dated when she dumped me to go into a religious community and told me that "that's the risk you take when you date a religious girl" and that if I wanted to get married, I should try to find a "bad girl" (HER words, NOT MINE, before anyone jumps all over me). And just yesterday, a guy on the 'L' that struck up a conversation with me even said that I should look for a less devout Catholic girl. Very depressing thought.[/color][/quote]

UGH. There's so much hypocrisy in the world...so many women will shout all day about having the freedom to choose whatever life they want, but then when it comes to women who embrace religion, suddenly all of the "choice" goes out the window. Depressing indeed.

[missionseeker]

[quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1332801945' post='2408894']
The real question is whether the "strong" women who "have it all together" are even interested in geting married due to buying in to the whole "independent", "you don't need a man" philosophy that has poisoned our culture since the 1970s.
[/quote]

right because women who think that their having a guy is what they are worth hasn't led to millions of abused, codependent, unhappy women who can't love themselves because men have taught them not to.

[arfink]

These kinds of threads always start fights. The kind of fights that come from confusing a stance against modernist "feminism" with chauvinism.

Missionseeker, is it really a surprise to you that many men resent modernist feminism not because they are chauvinists, but because it's actually sexist? I'd love to support a true vision of feminism, but the modern world has corrupted it nearly as much as chauvinism was a corruption of chivalry. (or whatever you call a vision of... man...ism. Don't know what word to use.)

Edited March 27, 2012 by arfink

[tinytherese]

If a man is intimidated by who you are, then he is not the kind of man you should marry.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1332806718' post='2408933']
But...the only man a woman really needs is Christ. No one should find all their personal fulfillment in one purely-human person. Our goal in marriage should be helping our spouse get to heaven (and raising godly children), not finding a suitable man with a suitable job to take care of us and future children.
[/quote]

I thought it was God Who said "It is not good for the man to be alone". It is clear from the Bible that we were not built to be alone. But the message of the past 40 years is the opposite. Look at the results.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='missionseeker' timestamp='1332814382' post='2408981']
right because women who think that their having a guy is what they are worth hasn't led to millions of abused, codependent, unhappy women who can't love themselves because men have taught them not to.
[/quote]

And this whole "marriage means abuse, codependence, and unhappiness" negative brainwashing that has been hoisted on modern society has only made people skeptical of marriage and contributed (with the help of artificial birth control) to the rise of the acceptance of sex outside of marriage, promiscuity, out-of-wedlock childbirths, STDs, etc. Satan has played his hand really well on this one.

[MissyP89]

[quote name='arfink' timestamp='1332815889' post='2408993']
I'd love to support a true vision of feminism, but...
[/quote]

Stop there.

If you want to support true feminism, forget what the rest of the world is doing, saying and thinking and do it! Yes, feminism as it's meant to be has been corrupted. Satan hates anything truly empowering and dignity-affirming. It shouldn't surprise anyone that it's become what it is today.

We can either stand up and reclaim feminism, or we can cave to the temptation of bitterness and despair.

[missionseeker]

[quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1332819566' post='2409018']
And this whole "marriage means abuse, codependence, and unhappiness" negative brainwashing that has been hoisted on modern society has only made people skeptical of marriage and contributed (with the help of artificial birth control) to the rise of the acceptance of sex outside of marriage, promiscuity, out-of-wedlock childbirths, STDs, etc. Satan has played his hand really well on this one.
[/quote]

Funny that you put marriage in quotations, since, as you will notice, I did not ever say marriage. I said "having a guy". And by that, I didn't mean marriage. I meant the mentality that a woman is not complete with out a man's approval.

[tinytherese]

[quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1332818942' post='2409015']
I thought it was God Who said "It is not good for the man to be alone". It is clear from the Bible that we were not built to be alone. But the message of the past 40 years is the opposite. Look at the results.
[/quote]

Matrimony is good and no one is saying otherwise. It is a vocation and a sacrament. Being married is how some people are called to serve God. This doesn't mean that we put our value and worth in whether we are married or not. Our value and worth comes from God. As I've read one woman write, that relationships are reflections of God's love, not replacements for God. God comes first, the spouse comes second, and then come ourselves.

If a woman says that she is focusing on God instead of getting married is probably discerning the religious life.

The women that you appear to be complaining of are those who only think of themselves. One woman did a public display of this when she married herself. [url="http://www.inflexwetrust.com/2012/03/18/woman-marries-herself-in-a-symbolic-ceremony/"]http://www.inflexwetrust.com/2012/03/18/woman-marries-herself-in-a-symbolic-ceremony/[/url]