Basilisa Marie Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='fides' Jack' timestamp='1334343345' post='2417183'] What I find interesting here is that on the first page, the people who are most okay with it are women. Let me be the first to state it: Women might not have trouble with temptations being housemates with a guy. A guy almost certainly will. Women have no idea what kind of impact living with them can have on a guy, because they're not guys. You can argue then that some guys are capable of not being tempted, and so it's okay for those guys, but not for others. To that I answer that the guys who are capable of living with women and not being tempted are exactly the same guys who avoid the temptation in the first place. They're not the ones living with you. The ones living with you almost certainly aren't opposed to the kinds of things that Catholics consider immoral - or at least aren't enough opposed, and they very likely will, at some point, try to get you to do things you might consider immoral, as Catholics. Yes, it is sinful - if it can be avoided (which it always can). I don't think it's a mortal sin in itself, but it certainly constitutes an act of not avoiding near occasions of sin - whether for yourself or for your housemate. As Catholics, we are obligated to look out for them, as well. [/quote] I'm not sure I understand how having a separate bedroom and a separate bathroom is going to be a temptation for a man. He's never going to see his female housemate in immodest attire (assuming we're talking about a bunch of practicing Catholics here) because he's not going to be going into her room or bathroom while she's in a towel. Can you explain to me where the temptation is coming from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fides' Jack Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1334343873' post='2417190'] I'm not sure I understand how having a separate bedroom and a separate bathroom is going to be a temptation for a man. He's never going to see his female housemate in immodest attire (assuming we're talking about a bunch of practicing Catholics here) because he's not going to be going into her room or bathroom while she's in a towel. Can you explain to me where the temptation is coming from? [/quote] You've never experienced attraction to a modestly dressed man? Well, according to my catechetical training, temptations come from the world, the flesh, and the devil. So even if no man is ever tempted by looking at a modestly dressed woman (which is a ridiculous idea, btw), there are still 2 other sources that could cause the temptation - his own libido, and the devil, who is always tempting good people with bad things. All 3 must be considered when trying to avoid near occasions of sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisa Marie Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='fides' Jack' timestamp='1334344626' post='2417204'] You've never experienced attraction to a modestly dressed man? Well, according to my catechetical training, temptations come from the world, the flesh, and the devil. So even if no man is ever tempted by looking at a modestly dressed woman (which is a ridiculous idea, btw), there are still 2 other sources that could cause the temptation - his own libido, and the devil, who is always tempting good people with bad things. All 3 must be considered when trying to avoid near occasions of sin. [/quote] By that logic a man should never leave his house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autumn Dusk Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='fides' Jack' timestamp='1334343345' post='2417183'] What I find interesting here is that on the first page, the people who are most okay with it are women. Let me be the first to state it: Women might not have trouble with temptations being housemates with a guy. A guy almost certainly will. Women have no idea what kind of impact living with them can have on a guy, because they're not guys. You can argue then that some guys are capable of not being tempted, and so it's okay for those guys, but not for others. To that I answer that the guys who are capable of living with women and not being tempted are exactly the same guys who avoid the temptation in the first place. They're not the ones living with you. The ones living with you almost certainly aren't opposed to the kinds of things that Catholics consider immoral - or at least aren't enough opposed, and they very likely will, at some point, try to get you to do things you might consider immoral, as Catholics. Yes, it is sinful - if it can be avoided (which it always can). I don't think it's a mortal sin in itself, but it certainly constitutes an act of not avoiding near occasions of sin - whether for yourself or for your housemate. As Catholics, we are obligated to look out for them, as well. [/quote] So do you think we should have single-gender apartments if those in the apartments are expected to share any common facilites (like laundry room, freezer, sun porch, backyard?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fides' Jack Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1334344886' post='2417213'] By that logic a man should never leave his house. [/quote] Again - some things can't be avoided. Those that can be avoided, should be avoided. "...man leaves his father and mother, and cleaves to his wife, and the two become one flesh..." Yes, man does leave his house - and this is the result! [quote name='Autumn Dusk' timestamp='1334345065' post='2417219'] So do you think we should have single-gender apartments if those in the apartments are expected to share any common facilites (like laundry room, freezer, sun porch, backyard?) [/quote] Personally, I wouldn't say that about [i]any[/i] common facilities, but I'm no authority. Should a woman be using the laundry room while a man is there if the man might accidentally see her underwear? Probably not. A backyard, on the other hand, is an open area that's visible to anyone, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autumn Dusk Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='fides' Jack' timestamp='1334346084' post='2417238'] Personally, I wouldn't say that about [i]any[/i] common facilities, but I'm no authority. Should a woman be using the laundry room while a man is there if the man might accidentally see her underwear? Probably not. A backyard, on the other hand, is an open area that's visible to anyone, anyway. [/quote] Good grief. By that logic I shouldn't hang my clothes outside to dry becuase my male neighbor might see my underwear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jennyanne Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) Well...I have been taught that to live with someone of the opposite sex when you are not married to them is scandalous. I have been taught this by priests, religious and yes, by some very holy lay catholics. Why don't you talk to a priest in confession about this if you don't think it is a big deal and see what they say? Seems like that would be a good place to form your conscience, (which is an essential duty of the Christian life.) Edited April 13, 2012 by jennyanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jennyanne Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='jennyanne' timestamp='1334346822' post='2417255'] Well...I have been taught that to live with someone of the opposite sex when you are not married to them is scandalous. I have been taught this by priests, religious and yes, by some very holy lay catholics. Why don't you talk to a priest in confession about this if you don't think it is a big deal and see what they say? Seems like that would be a good place to form your conscience, (which is an essential duty of the Christian life.) [/quote] Also there is an enormous difference between sharing common space that is not primarily living space, for instance a shared deck with separate apts, and sharing actual living space. And anyone who does not think that attractions or temptations could occur may not have hit puberty yet. Just kidding! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fides' Jack Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='Autumn Dusk' timestamp='1334346274' post='2417240'] Good grief. By that logic I shouldn't hang my clothes outside to dry becuase my male neighbor might see my underwear. [/quote] But see, Charlie Brown, this isn't an argument - it's just a statement soliciting ridicule of my argument. I see your position; I really do. I honestly wished that the world could work that way. But it doesn't. While I much prefer your position, it's also very innocent and naive. I don't think that women should [i]only[/i] act in order to not tempt men. That line of thinking results in burkas. But I do think that both men and women should act honorably. By living with a man, are you saying to the world that you do or do not care about the honor involved in that decision? It certainly isn't the former. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I was thinking about this more, and how I'd feel about my daughter living like that. I'd probably prefer she didn't live in that situation, chaste though it might be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='fides' Jack' timestamp='1334346084' post='2417238'] Should a woman be using the laundry room while a man is there if the man might accidentally see her underwear? Probably not. A backyard, on the other hand, is an open area that's visible to anyone, anyway. [/quote]Not making any judgement call, I'm sure you guys are bouncing around Catholic ideals, but THE ABOVE made me laugh. Good think I live in the South , cause with 4 sisters, I saw tons of girl underwear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franciscanheart Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='jennyanne' timestamp='1334346978' post='2417256'] And anyone who does not think that attractions or temptations could occur may not have hit puberty yet. Just kidding! [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='Archaeology cat' timestamp='1334349033' post='2417278'] I was thinking about this more, and how I'd feel about my daughter living like that. I'd probably prefer she didn't live in that situation, chaste though it might be. [/quote] Yeah... I gotta agree with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Since it's slow at work right now, another thought. When I met my future wife, we were friends first. At one point (around 1980) we thought about sharing an apartment as friends, since we were good friends and NOT interested in each other or looking for romance, which was probably why we had a good friendship. I nixed the idea because I was a little uncomfortable with that since I was Catholic, and my Catholic parents would have freaked. We joke/talk about it now and wonder what would have happened if we did move in. Would we have stayed just friends to avoid scandal? Would we have become intimate because we were both young and good looking (at the time anyway). Would that have ruined the relationship? Would my parents have welcomed our subsequent marriage or thought she 'seduced' me into marriage? I tend to think that two opposite sex people who move in together with full intentions of being chaste and avoiding 'scandal', may be missing out on a potential spouse or boy/girl friend because of the living arrangement complications. My eldest once had a couple of guy roomates in a large house. We liked one of the boys and wished he would date my daughter, but never encouraged it because it could get "complicated". They avoided thinking about dating each other because of possible complications with the living arrangements and stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1334349396' post='2417283'] Not making any judgement call, I'm sure you guys are bouncing around Catholic ideals, but THE ABOVE made me laugh. Good think I live in the South , cause with 4 sisters, I saw tons of girl underwear! [/quote]Me, too. I was thinking of the fact that dryers aren't the norm in Liverpool, so you hang your clothes outside if it's remotely good weather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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