missionseeker Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 [quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1334555141' post='2418559'] But biology explains lust and the ramifications of it, and why it is so strong during the years between thirteen and thirty. Honestly, if I cohabitated with a woman, I do not think I would do anything. But that's the thing: [i]Think. [/i]I'm not going to trust what I think and make a possibly life-altering decision unless I absolutely have to, and cohabitation is not normally something people must do, it is a choice on whether they want to do it or not. [/quote] Biology explains sex and how it works. Lust is just as much of a choice as choosing to live or not live with someone of the opposite sex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 [quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1334555573' post='2418565']I wouldn't trust myself to live in an apartment with an eighteen year old girl, no matter how much self-control we both had. [/quote] That's because... wait for it... ...Do I really even need to say it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1334555988' post='2418571'] That's because... wait for it... ...Do I really even need to say it? [/quote] Well, this depends. If you're going to say "This is because you're fifteen" I'm afraid until I see that ten thousand dollars I will start naming off Saints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missionseeker Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 [quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1334555573' post='2418565'] Of course. But simple biology says that sexual attraction is very strong in the teen years, and that is something nobody here will disagree with. I wouldn't trust myself to live in an apartment with an eighteen year old girl, no matter how much self-control we both had. I trust myself as far as I can throw me, and I'm a leg-strength kind of guy, so that ain't far. [/quote] Well, the key to virtue is habit and practice. If you practice a virtue, it becomes a habit. When you practice self restraint, it becomes natural. It's hard during the teen years, but as a person gets older and practices good habits and virtues, they become second nature. What teenagers don't realize that responding to the body/brain is NOT based on biology or some gut reaction. How we respond to the temptations around us is a choice, even when it comes to sexual desires and lust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Allow the record to show who said it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 [quote name='missionseeker' timestamp='1334556112' post='2418573'] Well, the key to virtue is habit and practice. If you practice a virtue, it becomes a habit. When you practice self restraint, it becomes natural. It's hard during the teen years, but as a person gets older and practices good habits and virtues, they become second nature. What teenagers don't realize that responding to the body/brain is NOT based on biology or some gut reaction. How we respond to the temptations around us is a choice, even when it comes to sexual desires and lust. [/quote] I do realize this. I am actually doing very well with self-control. I have been tempted many times, and not once in nearly a year have I ever even come close to giving in. I am simply saying I do not know how I would react if a girl I was living with came up to me and tried to have what used to be marital relations with me. I would like to think I would push her away and leave, but until a situation like that happens I will not know. Biology is not the answer for everything, but it is a means in which to find an answer, especially for physical things such as this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missionseeker Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 [quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1334556467' post='2418575'] I do realize this. I am actually doing very well with self-control. I have been tempted many times, and not once in nearly a year have I ever even come close to giving in. I am simply saying I do not know how I would react if a girl I was living with came up to me and tried to have what used to be marital relations with me. I would like to think I would push her away and leave, but until a situation like that happens I will not know. Biology is not the answer for everything, but it is a means in which to find an answer, especially for physical things such as this. [/quote] ok... half the time I am confused by what you are saying. 1)good on the temptations. It gets more and more habitual. You'll get there. 2) in the situation that I am pretty sure was the OP's intent, we are talking about two mutually respectful members of a household. Not random people coming up and being all "heeeeyyyy" 3) "what used to be marital relations" say what?! ? last time I checked this was still marital relations? 4) "[color=#282828]Biology is not the answer for everything, but it is a means in which to find an answer, especially for physical things such as this" [/color] [color=#282828]what do you mean by this? [/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 [quote name='missionseeker' timestamp='1334556979' post='2418577'] ok... half the time I am confused by what you are saying. 1)good on the temptations. It gets more and more habitual. You'll get there. 2) in the situation that I am pretty sure was the OP's intent, we are talking about two mutually respectful members of a household. Not random people coming up and being all "heeeeyyyy" 3) "what used to be marital relations" say what?! ? last time I checked this was still marital relations? 4) "[color=#282828]Biology is not the answer for everything, but it is a means in which to find an answer, especially for physical things such as this" [/color] [color=#282828]what do you mean by this? [/color] [/quote] Sorry, I'm on chat and doing this, so I'm not always 100% coherent. In fact, I think history has shown even without chat I'm not 100% coherent. Even for two respecting individuals, bad things can happen to them. I'm not saying it will with absolute certainty, but romantic feelings can develop and it can get ugly at that point. It is still marital relations for Catholics, but for the secular world it's just something people do. This is what I meant by this. I mean it can help us know the biological side of lust and these temptations and why we have them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missionseeker Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 [quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1334557209' post='2418578'] Sorry, I'm on chat and doing this, so I'm not always 100% coherent. In fact, I think history has shown even without chat I'm not 100% coherent. Even for two respecting individuals, bad things can happen to them. I'm not saying it will with absolute certainty, but romantic feelings can develop and it can get ugly at that point. It is still marital relations for Catholics, but for the secular world it's just something people do. This is what I meant by this. I mean it can help us know the biological side of lust and these temptations and why we have them. [/quote] ok, there is nothing biological about lust. The body is biological, lust is sinful. Lust didn't happen until after the Fall. do you see the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 [quote name='missionseeker' timestamp='1334557445' post='2418579'] ok, there is nothing biological about lust. The body is biological, lust is sinful. Lust didn't happen until after the Fall. do you see the difference? [/quote] Well, now you're just getting into specifics. I'm talking about our urges, not lust per say. Besides, labor didn't used to hurt before the Fall, but it did after. This was biological, so you could say biological things did happen after the Fall. However, for the sake of the conversation, I do not mean lust specifically, but our urges, and our urges can be explained in biology, such as why we have them, what they do to us, and how they can even cloud our judgment. But as I said: Biology is not the answer for everything, it is a tool to help us get the answer we need when it comes to moral theology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missionseeker Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 [quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1334558434' post='2418580'] Well, now you're just getting into specifics. I'm talking about our urges, not lust per say. Besides, labor didn't used to hurt before the Fall, but it did after. This was biological, so you could say biological things did happen after the Fall. However, for the sake of the conversation, I do not mean lust specifically, but our urges, and our urges can be explained in biology, such as why we have them, what they do to us, and how they can even cloud our judgment. But as I said: Biology is not the answer for everything, it is a tool to help us get the answer we need when it comes to moral theology. [/quote] Well death didn't happen before the Fall either. I didn't say biological things didn't happen, I said sinful things didn't exist before the Fall. The biology of the body is NOT a tool for moral theology, really. It's a tool so that we can train our consciences and our bodies to respond in the manner appropriate, which is not what someone who is basing their actions on biology would do. Those are the guys who say "but I'm a guy, so I can't help it" That's a bunch bs lies. The only thing true about that statement is "I'm a guy". Biology cannot be used as a scapegoat or an excuse for immoral thoughts and actions (lust). Whereas the world says "it's biology, you just need release" the Church says "[color=#000000]Therefore, since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God."[/color] [color=#000000]To say "well it's biology" is a copout, and a very common one for guys to use. [/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 [quote name='missionseeker' timestamp='1334560052' post='2418584'] Well death didn't happen before the Fall either. I didn't say biological things didn't happen, I said sinful things didn't exist before the Fall. The biology of the body is NOT a tool for moral theology, really. It's a tool so that we can train our consciences and our bodies to respond in the manner appropriate, which is not what someone who is basing their actions on biology would do. Those are the guys who say "but I'm a guy, so I can't help it" That's a bunch bs lies. The only thing true about that statement is "I'm a guy". Biology cannot be used as a scapegoat or an excuse for immoral thoughts and actions (lust). Whereas the world says "it's biology, you just need release" the Church says "[color=#000000]Therefore, since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God."[/color] [color=#000000]To say "well it's biology" is a copout, and a very common one for guys to use. [/color] [/quote] Precisely. I agree with you 100%. I'm simply saying that, though we should work on ourselves, we are not perfect and shouldn't trust each other 100%. Temptations happen, and we can't pretend nothing will ever happen. Something might not ever happen, but I don't want to take such a chance. This is my soul, not some possession. I'm not denouncing anyone that cohabitates as a sinner that is certain to go to hell, but there are things that can and in some cases are likely to happen, and I'm not willing to take such a risk unless I absolutely have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Amazing how NFP can work at all if everyone under 30 has such string sexual urges hat they can't control them. don't get me wrong, it can be difficult,but it certainly isn't impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 [quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1334551117' post='2418539'] A fifty-five year old woman is hardly two young people sharing an apartment together, which is what we have all been talking about. [/quote] Depends on the woman we're talking about. [img]http://www.topnews.in/files/Helen-Mirren.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amppax Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 [quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1334547701' post='2418525'] Is earth not after all a circle? A rather crude one, but circular nonetheless. [/quote] *Ahem*[size=1] its a sphere. [/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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