Trayvon Martin

[Guest]

Kujo like I originally said I was only calling the police department out on race. Until I was pressed by Reza I didn't bring up anything on wether I thought Zimmerman was racist. But since Reza pressed me on that I made it clear what I thought about Zimmerman also. I have met racist cops. I know they exist. For people to say I'm full off poo cause I imply the cops who were in charge of this were racist that's B.S. what if this was your son or brother and Zimmerman wasn't even arrested, walked away, and didn't go to trial. Give me a break.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Guest

[kujo]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1332650058' post='2407719']
Because it was. I mean, by definition that's what he did. That's not always absolutely awful. If there had been reports of a young, think black male burglarizing and all or mostly white neighborhood then fine. Maybe it's not something to celebrate but it's understandable why that presence would arouse attention. But this was supposedly a multi-racial area and it was dark and the kids hood was up (apparently as it was raining) which makes it extremely doubtful that he really just didn't recognize him. It would be hard to recognize anyone under those circumstances. This kid drew his attention because he was black. That's not illegal. But let's not pretend this was anything other than what it was.
[/quote]

But I thought it was a "multi-racial neighborhood?"

Look, we don't know Zimmerman's mindset leading up to the events, so all we're doing is speculating. That's probably why people are so frustrated--there is a profound sense of injustice here, and I fear--because of this asinine law-- that there will be nothing but more frustration and anger when it becomes clear that this man will go free, whether by trial or otherwise.

[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1332650089' post='2407720']
Kujo like I originally said I was only calling the police department out on race. Until I was pressed by Rezza I didn't bring up anything on wether I thought Zimmerman was racist. But since Rezza pressed me on that I made it clear what I thought about Zimmerman also. I have met racist cops. I know they exist. For people to say I'm full off poo cause I imply the cops who were in charge of this were racist i that's B.S. what if this was your son or brother and Zimmerman wasn't even arrested and went to trial. Give me a break.
[/quote]

Dude, I get it. I really do. I have a brother (he's adopted) who is black. I know that he's gotten the stink-eye treatment, and worse, in the past. It smells of elderberries, but there really isn't anything that anyone can do to change that. He gets a little down whenever something bizzare happens, but he always says that he can't get too mad because the people hassling him don't know that he's a med student with a pristine record from a happy middle class suburban home. All they see is his physical similarities to others less fortunate, who have unfortunately done some awful things. It's not fair, but life isn't fair.

As it pertains to this case, he's pretty stirred up at the response from the Sanford Police Department, and I am as well. He's angry about the loss of the kid's life, but he shares a certain amount of ambivalence about Zimmerman.

EDIT: And by the way, I have met racist cops--white and black and Latino and Asian and male and female. I've also met racist store clerks, printer salesmen, pastors, barflies, army veterans, politicians and family members. Being a cop who is a racist isn't the problem--being a [i]person[/i] with bigoted or stereotypical views in your head is the problem.

Edited March 25, 2012 by kujo

[Guest]

Kujo ya if you read my first post my anger was at the police department. God Bless man.

[kujo]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1332650834' post='2407728']
Kujo ya if you read my first post my anger was at the police department. God Bless man.
[/quote]

No problem, dude. I just got home from an exhausting day at work, so I may not have been as charitable as I ought to have been. Hope you can forgive me, bruh!

[Guest]

No I wasn't even mad in my response. I have been anything but charitable in this thread. Peace.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Guest

[Guest]

In 2005 Zimmerman was arrested for battery on a law enforcement officer and obstructing justice.

[Guest]

Over 1.5 million signatures to have Zimmerman arrested. Also Trayvon didn't have his hood on to begin with. Only put it on after he realised he was being followed. And it was raining.

[Guest]

Every single one of you should be outraged that Zimmerman was not arrested and did not go to trial for murdering a 17 year old boy who had no weapons on him and only had an iced tea, skittles, and a cell phone. To say there is no way race played into this with the police department not making an arrest is naive and borderline offensive. This does not deserve a trial and a jury ? This 17 year old boy should just be chalked up for being in the wrong neighborhood ? Just let Zimmerman walk away? Not drug test him or give him an alcohol test ? Not take into account he was arrested for battery on an officer in 2005 ? Ya the fact Trayvon was named Trayvon and he was black had nothing to do with no one being arrested. Right Again what if this was your son or brother ? Would you have no opinion on this police force and Zimmerman ?

Edited March 25, 2012 by Guest

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1332648079' post='2407664']
Yes I do know the facts Trayvon wasn't doing anything wrong. I heard the 911 tape. Zimmerman said Martin looked "suspicious" and like he was on drugs. Zimmerman didn't say Martin was breaking in cars or doing anything wrong. There are phone records with Trayvon talking to his girlfriend 5 minutes before police arrived and he was found dead. His girlfriend said Trayvon knew he was being followed and was trying to walk fast to get away. So don't give me this B.S. we don't know what Trayvon was up to. Or if he was breaking in houses or anything like that. We do KNOW what he was doing. He was walking back from the store after getting some skittles and an iced tea. He was talking to his girlfriend. He was black and had his hood up in the rain.
[/quote]

No you don't know the facts, you weren't there that night and didn't witness it for yourself. Do you also believe in Santa Clause just because your parents claimed to have given you the proper information? Zimmerman did say that the teenager looked "suspicious" and that he could have been on drugs but that isn't racial in nature. You're forgetting that this is a neighborhood with a string of burglaries, which involved individuals on drugs. As for his girlfriend, that is circumstantial at best. It's one person's testimony who wasn't present at the crime. There are thousands of drug addicts who have girlfriends who enable their behavior.

Bottomline is that you don't know, you weren't there. You don't have an explaination for why Zimmerman was covered in glass and soaked from head to toe. If he simply pulled out a gun and shot someone that would not be the case. Therefore there is much that is not yet explained.

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1332649234' post='2407702']
You're right; on the 25th day of March, 2012, we have all the information necessary to say, with 100% certainty, who Trayvon was and what he was doing out that night.[/quote] What a joke that is...

[quote]The problem is that Zimmerman was not privy to all of this information that night. All he saw was a young black male, walking through a tight-knit neighborhood alone at night with his hood up and his hands in his pockets. He was unfamiliar to the self-proclaimed "head" of the Night Watch, and was suspicious because of it. You can call that "racism" or "racial profiling," but I call it analogical reasoning, or schema. It may make us uncomfortable, and it makes for some juicy soundbytes for vultures like the "reverend" Al Sharpton, but the imperfect information possessed by Zimmerman gave him all the cause he needed to feel that there could be something worth calling 9-1-1 over.[/quote] Al-Sharpton was the same guy that also trumped up the racist chargest against the Duke Lacross team, who turned out to be innocent.

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1332649408' post='2407709']
That's all fine until you get to the part where he chased the kid down and the kid ended up dead. Had he simply called 9-11 this wouldn't be an issue. [/quote] Had he just simply called 9-11 and it was a real threat, someone could have been dead in their own home. This is why calling 9-11 alone is not always the answer.

[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1332650089' post='2407720']
Kujo like I originally said I was only calling the police department out on race. Until I was pressed by Reza I didn't bring up anything on wether I thought Zimmerman was racist. But since Reza pressed me on that I made it clear what I thought about Zimmerman also. I have met racist cops. I know they exist. For people to say I'm full off poo cause I imply the cops who were in charge of this were racist that's B.S. what if this was your son or brother and Zimmerman wasn't even arrested, walked away, and didn't go to trial. Give me a break.[/quote] Sorry to tell you but the police department never hinted at the idea of racism. I'd pressed you on the issue of racism because you'd claimed that your evidence on that matter was "solid" and you have yet to give a single shred of evidence that hints at the idea of racism. Evidence is not "the boy was black", that is not evidence. Evidence is Zimmerman or the police department making clear racial comments or not arresting based upon that. However that is not the case. They did not arrest because of the way in which Florida Law is written, which is not racist in nature. You can't arrest someone just because you think what they did is bad. You have to be able to justify it under the law.

[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1332663720' post='2407792']
In 2005 Zimmerman was arrested for battery on a law enforcement officer and obstructing justice.
[/quote]

That's irrelevant because it has nothing to do with this case. If you understood the law you'd know that you can't equate one case to another in a court of law.

[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1332670807' post='2407800']
Over 1.5 million signatures to have Zimmerman arrested. Also Trayvon didn't have his hood on to begin with. Only put it on after he realised he was being followed. And it was raining.
[/quote] That doesn't matter. I don't care if the whole world signed that petition. Someone cannot be prosecuted based upon popular opinion. We live in a land of laws, not mob rule with pitchforks and torches. I think that you're confusing our current system of law with the salem witch trials.

[Guest]

Ya they got in a fight dumbarse and Trayvon was beating his arse after Zimmerman followed him and instigated a fight. Then Zimmerman like the scum coward he is murdered a 17 year old boy

Edited March 25, 2012 by Guest

[kujo]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1332679948' post='2407819']
Ya they got in a fight dumbass and Trayvon was beating his arse after Zimmerman followed him and instigated a fight. Then Zimmerman like the scum coward he is murdered a 17 year old boy
[/quote]

If the first part of this post is correct--about Trayvon puttin' a whoopin' on Zimmerman, then that's all he needs to show probable cause for his self defense argument. It isn't a matter of who instigated the fight; once the fight was occurring, Zimmerman (and Trayvon) had the right to defend himself from the possibility of death. That's where the murkiness of this law is, in my opinion; it make ZERO provisions about not provoking a confrontation, instead seemingly offering blanket protection to anyone in any situation. For this reason--and I've been consistent about this since day one--I believe Zimmerman will go free.

[Guest]

So if Zimmerman follows Martin and starts a fight he then can murder him once he is losing the fight he started ?

[kujo]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1332680375' post='2407821']
So if Zimmerman follows Martin and starts a fight he then can murder him once he is losing the fight he started ?
[/quote]

According to this graduate student's interpretation of this moronic law, which is incredibly vague and permissive in its wording, yes.

[Guest]

And I would like to see Zimmerman proove Trayvon was going to beat his arse to the point of death. When the police would be there any monent and Trayvon weighs 140 pounds.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Guest

[kujo]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][size=4]I've been saying it for days now--this case reminds me of the tragic case where the little girl killed herself after being harassed and berated online by the mother of one of the girls in her class that lived down the street. The mother had created a false account on [color=#282828][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]Myspace and was bullying the young girl, saying she was fat and ugly and spreading ru[/background][/color]mors about her. She even said she should kill herself, which the little girl eventually did. When it happened, there was this gigantic public outrage, but eventually the sad reality sunk in that the cyber bullying laws were WOEFULLY behind, and there was nothing this lady could be charged and convicted with. Down the line, laws were added and a[/size][/font]mended so that such a tragic lack of justice wouldn't happen again. But the original culprit went free.

That's what I think it coming here. Zimmerman will go free because this law needs to be abridged or amended.